Andalusian/PRE people?

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Sorry for all my posts. I'm horseless and it's tough mentally.

I've always been told to look at andalusians, I guess because they are sensitive and I do well with sensitive.

I've tried one and he was sensitive and sensible which I enjoyed. But he also was lacking suspension in the trot. And back at the knee.

Just curious from people who really know the breed, is this a common trait? Or any traits that I should be aware of, good or bad?

[exvet]

I can't claim to be an expert with these types of horses; but, I did breed to a friend's Andalusian stallion twice because the Welsh cob stallion I wanted to breed my TB mare to was sterile for a couple of seasons. Both fillies she produced sold before they were weanlings (of course they didn't leave the farm until they were weaned) and went on to provide their owners fun in dressage and eventing. She was a really nice TB mare so while I liked the stallion, I can't really say how much they got from him other than a more amateur friendly brain and smaller stature. My partner in crime on the welsh front, Tamara in TN also acquired an Andalusian stallion and mare several years back who were both limited in their training/handling but actually quite tractable. We were going to breed some welsh x Andy crosses but that didn't end up panning out due to some personal challenges on her end. My neighbor is selling a 9 year old Andalusian gelding who came from Cavallia (vegas show). He's had me ride him a couple of times for people coming to look to buy. He is a really fun guy, very tractable, well trained and solid, I mean really solid between the ears. As a potential dressage mount he doesn't have a lot of scope to his gaits; but, he could easily get a rider their bronze. I also have a friend with a Lusitano gelding who has really been the bomb for her now that she's older (and she's a really good rider, a pro, but now she gets to enjoy her riding). She likes the Lusitano's better than the Andy's because she believes they're more athletic. I can't really comment on that; but, the majority of ones I've dealt with both as a vet and as a rider seem to have really decent brains; however, as they always say you must assess the individual because they don't all live up to the breed standard. As far as things to watch out for - melanoma in the grays and winging/paddling particularly in the Andy's imo.

[piedmontfields]

I am not expert, but I have a Lusitano x Trakehner and I LOVE her. She looks and moves like a purebred Lusitano. I would totally go that way again for my next horse, but they are not for everyone. She is sensitive, tough, sound, incredibly tractable and hard working. For many people, she would be too sensitive and too reactive. She is also very quick/nimble. However, her gaits are nothing like a quality warmblood. They are pure gaits, but much more modest. Collection is easier than extension with many of these types. But---those qualities make her very easy for me to sit and really ride her.

Conformation challenges can include winging (more common in the Andalusians IME---some lines actually breed for it in Spain). I will also say that they often have a tricky SI connection. I call it a "design feature", as it is very common in Andalusians and Lusitanos.

If you are on a budget, look at Aztecas (Andalusian x QH). There are so many very nice ones out there in the US, especially out west. I think Susan's Kyra is one, for example, on this board.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Aztecas are a great idea! I definitely like the sensibility and sensitivity.

[Flight]

I've only got a half Andy, but if I got another horse and had the $ I'd look for a pure luso or Andy. We are a little limited here in Australia for breeders though.
I find you get the smaller compact type of Andies or the bigger rangier type (some of the lankier ones can be a touch ugly until they get going - mine included).
They weren't bred to have big lofty gaits because they were meant to be quick and agile to bullfight and manoeuvre cattle.

[StraightForward]

I've ridden Susan's Azteca for a few months at a time over the past few years. She is very capable of the type of work you want to do. In fact, having never ridden HP, and Susan only training Kyra HP in walk and maybe a touch in trot, we learned trot and canter HP together last summer, and I don't think we were too far from trying changes when I stopped riding her in the fall. The collection and lateral work was much easier on her than on my Appendix mare.

I don't have experience with full Andalusians, but also prefer a little more suspension in the gaits than many of them have. With all the "fun" I'm having starting my WB mare, I will very likely be on the hunt for an Iberian/WB cross or similar, to hopefully get that Just Right best of both worlds like Khall is enjoying with her filly.

[blob]

There are some very, very nice PREs out there. The well-bred modern ones also have quite a bit more length of stride and suspension. These are also the ones that are at the top of the market, but it's interesting to see how the breeding is evolving for the market. I have a friend involved in this world and some of the horses she brings along are really spectacular and several figures outside of my budget!

One thing I've noticed both when I was on the hunt for a second horse two years back and through helping a friend more recently is that many of the PREs I found on the more affordable end of the range often had quite a few conformational problems. I don't know if this was our bad luck, but each one we came across had some pretty significant flaws. I wonder if this is because the quality purebreds--even the ones that are correct, not flashy--are going at a much higher price point. I think there are enough loyalists to the breed that one that I would consider correct, but with gaits that are just ok are going at fairly high price points. I did come across some PRE crosses that were quite nice and correct and priced well. So that might be a place to look--Aztecs and other crosses.

There are fewer of them on the market and I'm not sure how they are typically priced, but I do rather like Lusitanos and if I were looking for an iberian horse, I would personally probably look for a Lusitano over an andulisian

[demi]

7778034A-7E53-4A6D-B26E-94C79EBA26ED.jpeg (172.9 KiB) Viewed 11914 times

This was Andy. A pure Andalusian gelding that I rode in the early 80’s. I adored him. He belonged to a trainer at the barn where I boarded and when she shattered her leg in a hiking accident, I got to ride him for a year. The trainer “rescued” him from a bad situation. He had deep scars on his sides and a complete scarred ring around his nose. He was very nervous at first but as soon as he realized that we really cared about him, he was a perfect, loving, gentleman. He was steady as a rock and yet extremely responsive to the aids. I was told that he had a typical Andalusian temperament. I don’t know because he was the only one I ever rode, but as I said, I adored him. I would take another like him in a heartbeat.

The picture was taken in a clinic with Gwen Stockebrand. She loved Andy, too. She said he was her favorite lesson at the barn. He was a little guy, maybe 14.2, but he moved big. And it was like he knew how beautiful we all though he was.

[Kyra's Mom]

I had a response all typed out the other night and it went poof! So, I will start over.

Kyra is not an Azteca. The Azteca registry has a little stipulation that the (appendix) QH parent can be no more than 25% thoroughbred blood. Kyra's dam was 37.5%...heaven forbid . She is registered 1/2 Andalusian and the breeder called her an Iberian WB. Whatever...I will take her no matter what she is called.

Kyra does not have a lot of suspension but it does improve with proper work and a lot of lateral work. She has 3 pure gaits and plenty to work with. She has just been a dream for me ride-ability wise.
Getting older, bad back, stiffer rider. I can actually easily sit her gaits...except the lengthened/medium trot. I haven't mastered that yet and certainly won't with my current fitness. She has a really nice medium that is getting better and better with time. A few years ago (5-6), I rode a friend's WB mare while said friend was on 'stall rest' with a broken arm. I would call this mare an slightly above average mover...nothing like the uber movers we see now days but nice. About 16.1. I rode her for about 6 weeks and at the end of that 6 weeks I could sit her trot for maybe 4 strides before I popped out of the saddle like a squeezed grape. My hips and back just don't have that amount of movement in them. Kyra, despite her slight toeing out, is a straight mover and does not wing or paddle.

I am attaching this little blurb that Nika (Straightforward) sent me from last summer that shows some canter work. I hope she doesn't mind. I thought this was a lovely exercise and improved carriage and collection by the end of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PcRGsc ... e=youtu.be

I am pretty sold on the breed but would totally look at Lusitanos and Lusitano crosses. Khall's mare is one and she is turning out really nice. I think the Lusitano's are being more purpose bred specifically for dressage. I saw some REALLY nice cross breeds (Lusitano and QH) and for the life of me, I can't remember the farms' name but there were about 4 I wouldn't have hesitated having in my barn (if I had one ). Luckily, for my bank account they were all sold.

Susan

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Thank you guys! Just now seeing the responses. I rode a young Andalusian abc loved his temperament and sensitivity. Unfortunately, my vet and I felt he had significant conformation issues. I felt he was overpriced. I know some posters here agreed! Although I have friends that are big Andalusian fans and they felt he was priced well, despite his flaws. Since I'm not Andalusian connoisseur it just was a no-go for me.

But I definitely would not rule out looking at another or a cross! I definitely think temperament wise they seem like they're very very good fit for me and not super huge in size which is a plus for someone my size.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Using talk to text, sorry about typos! :/

[Quelah]

I've never seen an Andalusian that was back at the knee, so I wouldn't say that's a trait, just unfortunate confirmation.

I've had three crosses, no purebreds so my perspective may be skewed, but I've transported a fair number of purebreds. Hauling horses gives an interesting perspective because it shows (often) how horses deal with unfamiliar stressful situations.

I don't find them particularly sensitive, to ride or to handle. I grew up riding mostly TBs and some Arabs, so there's that.

Caveat- I am NOT a WB person. I've had care of probably hundreds of different WBs in my working life, between managing show barns and hauling. I admire them, what they can do, all of that, I can count on the fingers of one hand the ones I'd want to walk outside and see in my own barn.

So yes most Andalusians lack suspension in the trot, that's kind of one of their selling points for most people isn't it?
2 of the 3 I've had are not what I'd call brave, not a horse I'd want to have to count on when the shit hit the fan. Super fun in the arena though!

One of them, Milagro, is what I'd call a bit lazy, he takes a leg. He's fantastic in the dressage ring, gets all the oohs and aahs, but you need a little spur or to carry a stick or something

I'm lazy too, and only one of us can be that way. My Splash, the Accidental Pinto, has way more motor and sensibility than two of the three Andalusian crosses I've had, and he's much more sensitive (physically and emotionally) than any of them. You don't break a sweat riding him unless it's hot, which is how I like it. He also has THE smoothest trot. I think he's kinda perfect. I like him so much I bought his full sister. Shhhhh...I'm not sure my husband knows, I haven't brought her home yet. Splash is 1/4 Saddlebred, 1/4 Clyde, 1/2 Shire. Splash and 3 of the 4 pure Shires I've had have been much more sensitive than the Andalusians I've known. That thing about draft horses being dull and quiet, it's not always true.

So I'd say Andalusians, like any breed, are individuals temperament-wise, and you just won't know until you sit on the horse. But they're pretty sound generally, and easy keepers, and their trots won't beat you to death, and they generally have fabulous tails, which I think is a legitimate bonus point!

[blob]

I'm lazy too, and only one of us can be that way.

this made me laugh because it's so true about me too It's why I've always done well with the nervous ones because my laziness is also apparently calming.

My biggest struggle with MM is that she and I are too similar. We both will work only as hard as someone is insisting we work. I do great with a hard/tough instructor who gets on my butt to work harder. She does great with a rider that she knows will make her do the thing.

[Quelah]

She does great with a rider that she knows will make her do the thing.

Ah yes, I know this well! That's why I've been having my BFF the younger show Milagro (or was until COVID). They are peanut butter and jelly, and so fun to watch together.

[Chisamba]

I find my lipzzaners x very sensitive forward and sensible so maybe include them too. trotting standies can be nice but you have to develop the canter. I did train an Andalusian stallion, he was totally a push ride

[khall]

Well I own a Lusitano X with Han/TB. Joplin’s dam was very sensitive but sensible Joplin is too. Though Joplin is more tolerant than her dam was. Joplin is a worker bee. She can be a bit looky but never stupid. She has the perfect cross of Iberian and WB gaits. When Cedar rode her last weekend I was floored at how much power and scope she has. Perfect cross for me though I’ve got to get back into Pilates to be able to keep up with her movement posting. She’s actually easier to sit

I’ve also ridden both full Andalusians and Lusitanos for me the Lusitanos are more comfortable gait wise to ride. The Andalusians were harder in their back. Not sure if it was the difference in training or the breed.

Cedar said that the Lusitanos can be more aware of outside influences. Joplin not too bad.

I would take either breed full half I don’t care. When in Spain I ride an Andalusian who was very very sensitive but nothing bothered him. Incredibly fun to ride. A gray. I hate gray horses but would have brought him home in a heartbeat

I’m tired of WBs unless they have more blood. A half TB/WB better cross. I like a horse with a motor. I like a good TB or ASB or Arab.

Iberians are born for collection a d find sideways easy.