Dog suddenly aggressive

[Lipsmackerpony88]

So I have a 8 month old puppy (Border collie/Kelpie/heeler mix) and he's acting very aggressive to my daughter's friend.

I know we should not have anyone over because of Covid and we haven't in a long time but I thought we would let one friend come to spend the night.

He was thrilled to see her friend absolutely fine with her the first 3 hours. Although they were in my daughter's room a lot too. But suddenly at the top of the stairs (which has a baby gate that was shut) I hear him going berserk. I run upstairs to see what's going on. And they were just walking out of the bathroom from changing into PJ's. But he wouldn't calm down. Lunging toward the girl, growling, hair up, staring at her. I even tried to have her give him some treats. He took them and then would stare abd start growling again.

Right now, we put him in his kennel for the evening (close to bed time anyways) Obviously he's upset, now the girl is nervous and I don't want to risk a bite. I'll be contacting our trainer again.

Any ideas? I'm thinking something scared him or it's a smell on her clothes?

Before this he's been great around my daughter and other kids. I usually supervise with other kids but he was separated by a baby gate. I'm just so upset to see this happen.

*Disclaimer* he has had A LOT of professional training, gets lot of daily exercise, training, stimulation. I also have another border collie that I've had for 11 years.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Well he finally chilled out a little the next day. According to my daughter, he was laying at the top of the stairs by the baby gate. My daughter went to the bathroom and when she came out, he was barking and lunging at her friend. So SOMETHING happened when the girl was "alone" with the pup. I hope nothing intentional.

I'll watch him a bit more around kids now. He's still great with daughter.

[Quelah]

My take, short version, heelers are a bitey breed. You've got a herding mix dog with no job. You need to start working with a professional on a regular basis and give the dog a job, at minimum.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@Quelah as stated, he's my second herding mix. He's had TONS of professional training, much more than the average dog lol. Literally our whole day revolves around this dog. He's going to be my daughter's agility partner.

This was not him being nippy or herding the girl. He was upset and absolutely terrified of her. I have no idea what happened but it's clear that something happened. I really hope it wasn't intentional but the girl was acting a little guilty when we asked them what happened :/

So I'm not sure "giving him a job" outside all the training we do everyday would have prevented this from happening. He's always been more on the timid side, although we've worked tremendously hard to socialize him, it's just a bit who he is. I think he had me fooled into forgetting how sensitive he still can be.

[Chancellor]

You are probably better off asking a trainer who has seen him before rather than asking here. At 8 months old, he is starting to become an adult.
Is he fixed?

[Ryeissa]

If the friend comes over they don't get to be alone with the puppy. I think this sounds situational. Sounds like he was actually scared and "something" happened.

[Quelah]

I agree don't let the friend be near the dog. With "sketchy" dogs (and I own one so I'm not judging) our job is more to protect them from people than the other way around

Also, heelers/kelpies etc are very different temperament than border collies. When I see one of those, I assume it bites. I don't make that assumption about Border Collies.

As I said, I own a sketchy dog. Ok, I have a GSD that straight up would bite you if you came in my house, and I have her for a reason. But I'm not judging your dog or the tendencies that come with its breeding.

Bitey dogs also harden up as they mature, and if it's fear based, that tends to get worse. So yeah, check with your trainer, no more kid socialization. Whatever the cause, it's not worth a bite and getting a label put on the dog that would restrict what your daughter can do with him.

[Chancellor]

I would also be careful thinking that this person did something.
I also own a sketchy dog and there is a reason she is with me.
A year ago, she snapped at my neighbor just after he finished petting her. He had done NOTHING wrong except that he went to pat Sherman after she backed away from him. She saw Sherman as her resource.
There may not be any easily discernable rhyme or reason as to why the dog did what he did.
We know in Bailey's history there was some serious abuse.
When people come over Bailey needs to be VERY CAREFULLY managed. I simply do not trust her. And that is okay with me. She is tethered to me at all times when people are around.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@chancellor yeah I emailed a dog trainer we worked with before, so far, from knowing him, she thinks it sounds like he was scared of something. She thinks it sounds like he's in a second fear stage, like when they go through as pups. I could see that now, he does suddenly seem more aware of things. Trying to schedule a session with her to help guide us through it. A little difficult with Covid but we used to just do outside sessions.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@Ryeissa I agree.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I will definitely be careful with him. But, I know it's hard to understand, but I trust him more than I trust the girl. She's a sweet kid but her family is pretty messed up. They have been friends since they were 5 years old but she will be the friend I'll have watch later on as they get older (if I let my daughter see her at all, but that's a whole other conversation.) The family is very loud, chaotic, a little angry, petty and have a sneaky, manipulative streak. Oh and they are also really religious... I know you aren't your family, but values unfortunately get passed on a lot especially the older the kids get.

So there is a bit of an "energy" with this girl. My pup is a more sensitive soul so looking back, I can see how something could scare him.

Either way, we will be careful with him.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Well, my husband was walking the dogs with my daughter today and said they passed at a child. She said he barked at the child and acted really fearful (body low and cowered, tail between his legs and shaking.) So looks like this will be a thing we will need to address with the trainer for awhile. Abd obviously he can not be around other kids. He still loves my daughter but I'll be supervising him from now on. I am so upset that this is happening. But we will deal with it.

[Ryeissa]

sorry. My dog was very fearful too but born submissive so would be scared/inward vs aggressive/outward. we don't have kids and are pretty chill so my dog (who is older) is doing well.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Ryeissa, it's a bummer but we will work on it/around it. He's actually very submissive too in most situations but I guess still very outward with his emotions.

We are going to go back into training again. Otherwise, he's fantastic with my daughter (that's probably his favorite person) and great with family. We just need to work on it with outsiders.

I guess he probably always will be a bit of a "sketchy" dog. But I think we can manage it.

[MsM]

How is your dog doing now?

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Sorry MsM, just saw this.

He's doing well. Although we have not had any other children at our house. Every once in awhile he will hear my daughter in her room and get a little anxious, like he's expecting another child in there. As soon as he sees it my daughter, he's happy and relaxed again.

He has been fine when seeing children outside/at the park though. I don't think he'd ever be a dog that I'd invite children over to pet though. Just better to be cautious.

I do hope to work more again with a trainer this summer to see how he's really doing though. It's just been busy around here and living at home, he's been no problem.