The Olympics

[Tanga]

I don't know if I'll be up at 4 to watch, and I need to figure out how to watch, but I'll manage.

Astrid Appels just posted this. I love her. She always says everything I am thinking. Do I think this will get the judges to actually stop overscoring? No. It would SURE be nice to see Isabel get a 4 for her no overtrack extended trot, though. It's not very inspiring to see Olympic riders get a higher score than you do a local level when you did a better job. And on the converse side, I would like to see higher scores on the really good stuff.

https://eurodressage.com/2021/07/22/tok ... rP5ZSJAHsw

[Flight]

I'm excited that it will be on at a reasonable time for us here in Aus! Yes, interesting article. I don't think they will stop overscoring but it's good to see more stuff out about it happening.

[Tanga]

I'm excited that it will be on at a reasonable time for us here in Aus! Yes, interesting article. I don't think they will stop overscoring but it's good to see more stuff out about it happening.

I was like what in the world do you mean "reasonable," but forgot you were in Australia! Nothing reasonable here about 4 am! Edit--That's 4 am eastern time. 1 am Pacific. That's too late for me to stay up!

I love Astrid Appels. She knows her stuff and doesn't hold back.

[Chisamba]

I loved Jessica von W B and Sabine's ride. I think they deserved top two spots. yes Jessica's horse doesn't " track up " in the extensions, guess why? its his confirmation not his lack of extension. I loved her longer rein and the horses self carriage throughout.

I believe the judges are smart enough to know that different confirmation in horses show different gaits and that a horse can be in excellent carriage and connection and not be tracking up.

it is so quaint when on Facebook people post a picture of Riener Klimke and say how perfect it is because the poll is high, but the horse is down hill, hollow backed, and camped out behind. next to it is a modern horse being criticized for being too round, but the horse is uphill, using its hind . my point is if you focus on one thing, you are obscuring the picture as a whole.

I used to be the worst kind of a rail bird. it's so easy to pick on an imperfection. I have grown up, and now I find when I look at the whole, the horse, I have stopped second guessing judges and started enjoying the excellent levels of performance and communication these riders have.

even the "worst " are presenting years of work and skill at a far superior level to anything I do or see and I am not arrogant enough to think I should outscore even the worst of them. of course i havent even had a GP horse in two decades or more , and keep.missing that particular target.

those of you who are hitting that target, well done. you are fabulous.

I still think the rides today, even the poor guy whose horse was so tense and spooky in the corner, even the horses who kept diving in piaffe and pirouette, they all were a joy to watch.

[blob]

I missed Sabine's ride, unfortunately, but did see Jessica's (and several others as well, too). I thought Jessica's trot half-passes were really exceptional.

I agree that these riders and horses are leagues above anything I do or see. But I do enjoy evaluating the rides because it helps me improve my own eye and understanding. I think this is less about judging the training and more about seeing strengths and weaknesses in each combination/ride. And sometimes the observation is also about me having to think through what is actually considered 'more correct'-- knowing that perfection is not attainable. For example, what is better: the piaffe where one diagonal pair is a bit slower but there is a lot of sit and activity or the one where the pairs are even but there is less activity, sit, and height? Personally, I would say the latter, but I can see the former scoring higher. Anyway, it's enjoyable and interesting for me to be critical/observant in this way and all of it comes with a tremendous admiration for these riders and horses.

I will say I was disappointed by the commentary, which is neither here nor there really. I don't need commentary to enjoy the rides, but good commentary is a nice option and of course if you prefer silence, there is always mute!

I'm looking forward to tomorrow's rides and catching up on the ones i missed from earlier today.

[Chisamba]

I'll put rail bird hat for that. the commentary was ghastly.

[Chisamba]

yes Blib. comparing and evaluating is very helpful I just find the habit of tearing the top rides down and saying I can do better than that to be quaint

[Tanga]

HOW is anyone watching this and not staying up all night? I can't see anything. NBC has replays, but only 30 minutes. You have to log into you cable if you want more. I don't have cable. I can't find anywhere I can pay to watch the replays.

As for railbirds, Astrid knows what she's talking about. Yes, most of these riders are levels above everyone, but they should not be held to a LOWER standard. The FEI has rules on how to score. A piaffe not on the spot for 14 steps is a 6 at best. I see the top levels way overscored on that all of the time. Yes, horses are built in different ways, but many of Werth's horses do not over tack in the extended trot because they do not come under
behind or are short, but they regularly get 7's and 8's. There is a BIG problem with ignoring flaws with big name rides. She is right.
FEI guidelines:
"Extended trot: Very tight in neck/back, no overtrack, however, clear rhythm Below 7"
Piaffe: Advancing for more than 4 ‐ 5 m = showing half steps Below 5; lower if travelling even more
Travelling approximately 3 ‐ 4 m Below 6
Travelling approximately 2 m Deduction of 1 ‐ 2 p.

And, on that note, LIKE I said, they are underscored in many areas. I see half passes in the trot underscored a lot, and GOOD trot extensions. Supenkaspar fabuluous trot and canter extensions and should be mostly getting 10's on those. I see a lot of 8's for the best examples instead of the 9's and 10's there should be. (He also gets way ovescored for the severely flawed piaffe which goes more side to side than I've ever seen, which, by the FEI rules: Extreme balancing from side to side, very crooked, drifting sideways or Extreme crossing front or hind legs Below 6, depending on severity of problem.)

https://inside.fei.org/system/files/Gui ... ements.pdf

[blob]

Tanga--i don't know how to watch without a cable subscription. With one, I found the NBC sports app to be the best option, where I can watch replay whenever, but I have to be logged in.

[Tanga]

Tanga--i don't know how to watch without a cable subscription. With one, I found the NBC sports app to be the best option, where I can watch replay whenever, but I have to be logged in.

That's what I'm finding out! I got a free week of Peacock TV which has it live, which means I'm staying up all night to watch it starting at 1 am. I'm going to see if I can pay for temporary cable just so I can get to the replays online!

[Tanga]

Sabine's ride: https://www.facebook.com/laura.cross3/v ... 2791639336

[Flight]

If you've got a VPN, 7plus in Australia is covering the lot, and with replays. It starts for us at 6pm, the commentary last night was by Lucinda Green, which is always 'interesting' but not ghastly, and the quality was quite sharp with only a few glitches. Plus, I'm on leave so you can see why I'm so happy LOL.

It was fun watching all the horses, there are ones that I preferred and ones I didn't. But as we all know, it's hard to train even near that level!!
I think some of the nicer ridden/trained horses were under scored. I'm sad that the Aus rider missed her changes and she didn't look too happy riding out. She can probably do them multiple times in training without a problem. It would burn.

[Chisamba]

I use my fubu log in to watch. no cable here either.

being more analytical than last time, I thought Steffen let nerves get the better if him, because he tipped further and further forward with his legs behind and his hand held into his crotch as the ride went on.

I was very interested to see that my own self criticism of my worst habit seemed to be more common in the to riders than I thought. so I can take a breath and just keep on, like they do . lol.

Bella Rose had fantastic piaffe passage transitions. maybe the nicest I saw. her extended trot was, as usual, not her strongest suit. Supencasper had glorious walk. i loved it.

I thought the Lusitano, Ecuador? riden by the Portuguese rider was having a great deal of difficulty keeping his hind end working.

I really enjoyed watching them all and found things to enjoy about most of the rides

[Chisamba]

there were a few riders I was quite unfamiliar with who I enjoyed. but dang I didn't write down names.

also I assumed Peters let nerves getnthe better of him. he is a very seasoned rider, it probably wasn't nerves. I think nerves because that is my problem. lol. it may simply have been the horse getting tired or hot. I shouldn't assume

[Chisamba]

PS. I couldn't find any equestrian on peacock.

I wentnto nbc streaming, clicked dressage, then used my fubo sign in

[Tanga]

I also could not get anything through Peacock, even though it says you can. I watched some other live link, waking up at 1 am to watch an hour an half, fell asleep until 4, and then watched the rest until 5. I can't say my brain was working very well, so no really cognizent thoughts.

I did find the camera angles very annoying in spots, hiding the extended trots and the last centerline. I was able to watch a half hour of the NBCOlympics free, and OMG the commentator is annoying. She mumbles so badly I couldn't understand. Apparently she's a jumper rider, British, and doesn't have much of a clue.

I didn't notice about Steffen's riding. I noticed the horse stayed pretty relaxed. The camera angles hid his side to side flaw. The only thing I really noticed about Bella Rose (I was literally holding my eyelids open) was how lateral and tense both her walks were. I saw Salvino's ride and noticed he was getting a little uneven like he used to when he was tense. They didn't give the score, but I see this morning it reflected that.

I reuped my $40 a month Comcast internet last night which gives me free flex tv, which she assured me will allow me to watch all of the replays (not in the middle of the night) one it kicks in today at some point. And then I can watch the GPS and freestyle fully in replay.

[Tanga]

Gio: https://www.stableexpress.com/?T=Gio%20 ... %2C%202011)&fbclid=IwAR2Ox0rG5kqCRKLVsS3s1VqZE1csc6yG57Js47mb9Ul9QHK60l7VcUM2vaE

[Flight]

Lucinda Green mentioned that Steffen sits differently and "on the front of his backside" She has a way with words.
Tanga - I did notice that massive side to side thing his horse does in the passage.

Bella Rose has nice piaffe/passage trans because her piaffe is basically passage on the spot. Well, it looks like it is to me. If you took a stillshot you can't tell it's piaffe.

Argh our Aussies had some issues but I loved Simone Pearce and her horse. I love the frame she rides him in!

[Tanga]

I'll have to rewatch all that without holding my eyelids open and look at Steffen. We all know he has been dealing with anxiety about all of this, and I'm sure he has there! We all know I sure tilt forward when I get nervous! It is such a shame Supenkaspar has that major flaw, which is I guess why they were able to buy him.

I'd have to look at Bella Rose again for the p/p, but one reason I think those transitions are so nice is she doesn't sit. So the judges are dinging other people for not sitting, but not her. This reminds me of Rembrandt when he came on the scene and was so clockwork steady on his p/p, but never actually sat. Is it the best if you miss one of the criteria? "High croup not taking weight behind cannot be a high mark, then the horse is coming
clearly on the forehand ." https://inside.fei.org/system/files/Gui ... 20walk.pdf

I think I saw Simone Pearce, but can't remember well. Seemed like a nice ride?

[blob]

one thing that has been an important reminder watching these rides is that the seemingly 'simple' things are difficult to execute well. I've watched many riders have small fumbles in their halt rein-back, which is certainly not the most ADVANCED moved--but it is one that requires precision and focus.

[Tanga]

https://eurodressage.com/2021/07/26/ger ... 0_ggEJPDHk

[blob]

Argh our Aussies had some issues but I loved Simone Pearce and her horse. I love the frame she rides him in!

yes, he was in a lovely frame--very up and open and in front. They had some really terrific moments in the test, a real shame about the changes. the extended trot was textbook. I would love to see her freestyle.

[Chisamba]

I disagree about Simone Pearce. was not one of my favorite rides norb did he impress me as being up or open.

I thought Jessica's horse had by far the longest neck and best self carriage. you don't have to agree, it s just my observation

[blob]

I thought Jessica's horse had by far the longest neck and best self carriage. you don't have to agree, it s just my observation

i think the two horses have very different conformation. And I think both were ridden in frames that were lovely for their build.

in a totally frivolous observations: I was surprised how many horses had truly incredible looking tails. I wonder how many fake tails were in use in addition to excellent grooming of course. Also there is no judgement here, I would absolutely put a fake tail on if I had a scraggly one and was going to the olympics!

[Ponichiwa]

I'm completely frivolous with you, too, Blob! But tail extensions aren't legal in FEI (or USEF/USDF) dressage.

Which doesn't rule out weaves... THE PLOT (and the tail) THICKENS

[Tanga]

https://eurodressage.com/2021/07/28/ger ... HmtjYwAMU8

I stayed up all night and watched almost every bit from 1 am to 6. I have never seen so many amazing rides. Fabulous, correct horses and fabulous riding. I think many of the scores were way too low. There should have been more like 15 in the 80-s--these are the best and we are seeing the best. The number of spot on p/p lines was amazing. (I am glad I never have to ride the GPS--that is WAY too much passage/extended trot.)

Suppenkaspar was fabulous and should have been mostly 10's in the extended trot, and even his side to side p/p was so much better, and certainly better than Bella Rose's no haunches lowering p/p. Sabine did a master class on how to get out every point and should have been above Bella Rose at least 3/4 points. I think at least 10 horses did a much better job, not having the issue with ext. trot, walk, and no bend in canter h/p and pirouette. Bohemian has a less than stellar ext. trot, but is better than Bella Rose.

I hope the judges are much braver in the freestyle judging. Isabel put out her wishes in this article--she thinks she deserved more points. Be braver. I will go to bed early and wake up at 1 again.

[Tanga]

This is too hard for me to deal with, but all scores. https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olympic ... _EQU_C77(D)_EQUODRESTEAM----------GPSP000100--.pdf?fbclid=IwAR17Nm2RtjuT-LqaJtFhznGoBFvfy7tB1dWd6U6ZtkFY9EwQwOUlSxXOyy0

[Chisamba]

it's obvious you look at Bella Rose through grinch lenses. I love her piaffe and passage, I thought her extended gaits were improved, and even her walk was less tense

I do love Suppencaspers walk. I thought steffen rode him beautifully and less conservative this time.

I really did enjoy all the rides, and I was a bit surprised when some judges gave 8 for the center line changes that were 11 instead of 9. was that fixed by overview? anyone know?

Tanga I thought you were disapproving of overly generous scores. now you are complaining for underscoring. ??

[Shirrine]

Well done US for 3 lovely tests. I thoroughly enjoyed watching them and the UK rides. So nice to see soft open horses.
We are lucky to be watching in our evenings instead of at stupid oclock here for once.I end up in bed watching the end. I think overall the standard has been wonderful right down to the bottom of the list. Sadly the Aussie had to many mistakes in their tests. We had high hope for Simone but not to be.
Bring on the Kur.

Shirrine

[Flight]

I thought the riding/horses were even better last night in the GPS! There were ones I really liked, different to your favourites Chisamba, but as a whole I really enjoyed watching. I like the music they match to the riding as well.
Freestyle tonight! Then I'll probably watch all the replays

[Tanga]

Chisamba Yes, I look at Bella Rose from eyes with years of experience dealing with all levels of stuff and try to look at it with a lens of fairness and correctness. Yes, her p/p is steady. But it does not sit. It's fine, but it is not 9's/10's when you have horses doing that level of steadiness AND sitting. Riding the transitions into and out of p/p without sitting is WAY easier than sitting (as I work on this) so getting huge transition scores because it was done in an easier way is wrong. Period.

I'm sick of one person ALWAYS over scored. And I don't know where you got I only disapprove of over scoring. I have said over and over and over and over scores need to be more correct, and higher and lower where needed. I never said Werth is a bad rider, but she is the one you can count on to be over scored. She is an intimidating woman. She said in the interviews she thinks she deserved an even higher score. When I was at the Vegas World Cup way back when and had a press pass, she blamed the photographers for spooking her horse even though it was the same for all. It's never good when basically the same person wins no matter what.

I heard a comment about too many tempi changes on the CL. I would assume that error was fixed later.

I only saw some of the GP, but from what I saw, every single horse was better. Again, I have NEVER seen such a huge number of fabulous rides. What a thing for the sport if the best of the best are getting 80-'s and 90's.

Oh, and another issue is the rider scores. Someone shared this: https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olympic ... _EQU_C77(D)_EQUODRESTEAM----------GPSP000100--.pdf?fbclid=IwAR17Nm2RtjuT-LqaJtFhznGoBFvfy7tB1dWd6U6ZtkFY9EwQwOUlSxXOyy0 Steffen and Catherine are getting 8's as a rider score??? And Charlotte Fry? Adrienne's are all over the place. How can any of these riders really be below an 8, and really should all be 9's and 10's.

I will go to sleep early and wake up at 1 to watch the freestyles live.

[Tanga]

https://eurodressage.com/2021/07/28/ger ... _F3CwuMqrc


https://eurodressage.com/2021/07/28/von ... MKnh2jWtTY

https://eurodressage.com/2021/07/29/jes ... QXJaq74AD4

[Chisamba]

ok so what is worse. a horse that sits so much in the piaffe that it gets bound up and grounded and cannot stay light and active in front evidenced by side to side front steps, or a horse that sits mildly, and stays super even and active front and back.

I get it. I didn't like Totilas a felt he was dramatically overscored. but I had enough grace to acknowledge what Toto did well.

Charlotte is going to have to teach pumpkin not to sit quite so much behind to improve his piaffe. in my opinion.

[Chisamba]

I thought the riding/horses were even better last night in the GPS! There were ones I really liked, different to your favourites Chisamba, but as a whole I really enjoyed watching. I like the music they match to the riding as well.
Freestyle tonight! Then I'll probably watch all the replays

I only mentioned 2 rides I liked on the first day. I didn't pick favorites. I found quite a lot to admire and honestly, some I admired less.

I am not in general a fan of Steffen , but I like the way he rides Suppencasper better than most of his other rides. I do admire the way Carl rides, but he doesn't show as well as Charlotte. I thought " pumpkin" showed his lack of strength and probably didn't deserve bronze.

perhaps Jessica was my favorite but I'm not sure

[blob]

I have not had a chance to watch freestyles. But I'm excited to watch, even though I know the results. I'm also looking forward to seeing the music selection--which can be such a subjective thing.

I know not everyone likes Isabel Werth, but I do think she is clearly an incredible trainer, given how successful she is with so many of her horses. With current FEI rankings her horses are 1, 3, 8, and 12. And yes, of course the horses she rides are of incredible quality. BUT I don't think they're necessarily better than other top international riders. So, to have that kind of a presence in the top 15 is quite remarkable. I also appreciate the fact that Bella Rose is 17. Not that 17 is old, per se, but I think it's also a testament to the training that she is still at the top of her game.

An observation that is neither here nor there: I really enjoy seeing mares in the medals! There are still so many people who think 'mares are for breeding'.

[Tanga]

ok so what is worse. a horse that sits so much in the piaffe that it gets bound up and grounded and cannot stay light and active in front evidenced by side to side front steps, or a horse that sits mildly, and stays super even and active front and back.

I get it. I didn't like Totilas a felt he was dramatically overscored. but I had enough grace to acknowledge what Toto did well.

Charlotte is going to have to teach pumpkin not to sit quite so much behind to improve his piaffe. in my opinion.

I think Suppenkaspar and Bella Rose are about even in issues in p/p, depending on how bad they are. And when coupled with a sub par walk and ext. trot and walks, and the tempi changes swinging side to side, that makes a difference. But we are in a place in dressage where there are many horses that are sitting, on the spot, and dead on steady, which I thought I'd never see, so putting a flawed p/p at the top makes no sense.

And, one more time, it's not about grace. It's about acknowledging reality. Totilas was overscored for a few years, and Gal is not still being over scored, versus Werth to the detriment of dressage. I 100% guarantee if she was scored more accurately, she would find a way to fix it. Holding up a flawed p/p as the best is not good fo the sport.

Gio is young, and I am not happy about such young horses being competed at this level, and of course he needs to improve. I didn't think he would do that well and thought he competed at maybe above his ability in the FS.

I thought the GPS was when all of the horses hit the sweet spot ad was amazing. The freestyle not as much, but it was still amazing. I thought most of the music was blah. There were a few I found interesting. But as I work on mine and the feedback from Rodriguez and the freestyle symposium, it doesn't really matter. It just needs to be easy for judges to see it with the gaits and the changes in movements. Sigh. They can't really do anything but give good scores as long as it fits.

And Blob, agree. Love seeing all of the mares. It was a pretty even mix of mares, stallions, a geldings, which was pretty cool. Didn't used to be that way.

[khall]

I really enjoyed watching the ones I could. NBC is too good at not showing them all so I had to go to other sources to see some of the other countries. I especially wanted to see the Iberians.

I agree wholeheartedly with Tanga re Bella Rose. And IW is a sore competitor complaining about the scores. I’m glad she did not get gold this time. Her teammate knocked it out of the park with her mare. One with very old style WB conformation! I thought Sabine was spectacular and I’ve always enjoyed Stephan P. He is such a nice man to meet as well. That horse of his not my favorite but SP did a beautiful job of riding him.

I too enjoyed rooting for the mares! And how about the podium topped by 3 women .

Charlotte is just and incredible competitor. I love her partnership with her horses and relationship with CH. pumpkin did a great job of stepping up for the occasion. The En Vogue horse is just drool worthy.

I just hope now the eventing goes off without a hitch.

[MsM]

I am glad to read that I am not the only one perplexed by Bella Rose's super high piaffe scores. Certainly much to like, but often with no sitting. Kind of reminds me of the discussions about Rembrandt many years ago.

The quality of the rides was amazing, almost without exception. So nice to see so many harmonious rides. There have been times in years past when I watched FEI international competitions and found many of the "successful" rides looked forced and tense. I would sigh and think "Well I'm never going to be at that level anyway!" Plenty to emulate and aspire to in this crew!

Finally grateful to still have cable/internet package. I said "Olympic Equestrian" into the remote and it showed me what was on, what was upcoming, and what replays were available!

[Tanga]

I am glad to read that I am not the only one perplexed by Bella Rose's super high piaffe scores. Certainly much to like, but often with no sitting. Kind of reminds me of the discussions about Rembrandt many years ago.

Exactly. That was controversial years ago, but that was when all top riders had a flaw or flaws. The quality has gone up so much, and there are now so many with no flaws and dead on p/p that sit. I hope the amazing quality we saw stays that way!

[Hickory]

Sabine Schut-Kery & Sanceo were my favorites. What a pretty horse he is I am in love!

[Koolkat]

Not dressage, but holey moley!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlp26KQMNO8

[heddylamar]

Explosion is an absolutely gorgeous jumper!

[Chancellor]

Not dressage, but holey moley!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlp26KQMNO8

Um, yeah. HOLY MOLY!