Deneb:

[ASBJumper]

OMG, yaaay!!! Fingers crossed!! Please continue to keep us posted, I really hope this is it!

[Ryeissa]

that is very interesting! Yes, please keep us posted.

[demi]

I sure hope this works. MC suggested hormone therapy for Em and wouldn't it be amazing if that's the answer?? For either of theses mares. They are quite different but who knows?! Hormones, and their biochemistry, are so complex that even endocrinologists don't completely understand them.

[Imperini]

Oh how awesome if this is the solution.. and how awesome that you stuck with her long enough to come to a possible solution, I think a lot of people wouldn't have

[leheath8]

I have had mares exclusively for 30 years and have never had one need hormones. So it never even occurred to me to consider hormone issues when my current young horse started displaying some serious misbehavior under saddle (e.g. rearing, spinning, running backwards and sideways, flinging herself at jumps). It was much worse away from home, but on "bad days" (which I never connected as occurring with a regular frequency) was pretty bad at home too. A clinician got on her (most wouldn't even consider mounting her when she was bad) and suggested hormones might be the cause. I was skeptical, but couldn't think of anything else to try so gave it a go. My vet and I timed the start so we were pretty sure we would see a difference within 10-14 days and it was a complete miracle within that time frame. Trainers and friends couldn't believe it was the same horse. She previously showed precisely no "typical mareishness" - no moodiness, no obvious heats, no peeing or showing, etc - nothing that would have made me connect the bad behavior with hormones.

I really hope this helps your mare as much as it has helped mine. It sure isn't cheap (Valley Vet has it on sale right now!), but it is completely worth the cost to have my horse be a wonderful eventing partner instead of an unrideable danger to both of us. And don't beat yourself up about not thinking of it sooner - it took a clinician making the suggestion to me and that was after 8 months of problems - I sure wish horses could talk!

[Chisamba]

The most exciting thing about this video is that there is nothing exciting about this video.

https://youtu.be/boOE2Mo8W7A

[Kyra's Mom]

Super . Love the swinging tail.

I hope the positive change continues.

Susan

[Flight]

She looks great! And yes very normal
She's a pretty girl.

[Rosie B]

She looks like a pleasure to ride in this video.

YAY!!!!!!

[ASBJumper]

Fabulous, Marion!! SO HAPPY FOR YOU TWO! She is so lovely!

[piedmontfields]

What a boring video. Love it! So glad you are seeing improvements.

[Chisamba]

I thought that perhaps some who are struggling with horses that might be termed a bit difficult may like an update on Deneb. Mikhail, my videographer, is back at college so I did not have him to video me Thursday, but she was going well so i asked my working student to ride her in a lesson and I videoed a little to share. I do not mind if you share opinions on the horse, but ask that you only give positive feedback on the rider, as she was simply doing me a favor.

https://youtu.be/IYr5PHRwiLM

some of you may remember the whole story, but for those who do not want to wade through pages of commentary, my scariest moment with her was probably when she tried to jump out of the indoor through the mirror while i was riding her and smashed me into it. There have been other moments that were not fabulous and there was a period of time where i would quickly go over my in my mind if i had any apologies i should make before i got on her, or if it was a good day to die.

Fortunately it never came to that, of course, and this year i am contemplating taking her out to the big world to show. I just wondered if you thought that this was show-able. I think a Micklem bridle is legal in dressage, but she will go in a normal nose band too, she just seems to like this one best

[piedmontfields]

Yet another boring video. I love it! Deneb looks very happy in her work.

[demi]

She looks very good! Is she still on the regumate?

[Moutaineer]

Looking good! Very relaxed and focused.

I bet that indoor takes some getting used to for the horse, with all the changing light patterns...

[Hayburner]

Seeing much improvement, she looks so much more relaxed. She has come a long way! Congrats

[khall]

How lovely chisamba! I know you are very proud of how far she has come.

[Chisamba]

She looks very good! Is she still on the regumate?

Yes but the generic kind, it's a little cheaper.

[Chisamba]

Looking good! Very relaxed and focused.

I bet that indoor takes some getting used to for the horse, with all the changing light patterns...

Yes, it really does, but we barely notice it anymore and it's warmer than a steel barn

[StraightForward]

She looks quite nice! And yes, the Micklem is legal for dressage. I have both Annabelle and Pickle going in them.

[Dresseur]

Deneb looks very solid and confident in her work. What an incredible reward for all the trials and tribulations you've encountered in her training.

[Flight]

She looks great Chisamba

[orono]

She looks terrific!! How old is she now?

[Chisamba]

She looks terrific!! How old is she now?

She will be eight this year

[LeoApp]

Yes - relaxed and focused. It's been a long haul. Great work - you are a true horse whisperer!

[cb06]

Great update!
She looks relaxed, focused, and ready to learn and progress.

[Chisamba]

I could not, even though I tried, read through this whole thread

I wantef to to know if had missed things I think i have told everyone that i ultimately had to euthanize Neb as she vecame increasingly anxious, aggressive and unhappy. Bur it was only when she walked diwn a slope in her field that i realized something really important. She was not walking straight down, but zig zagging in a way that indicated neurological ataxia. Looking at the videos of her moving, one would not immediately look for neurological deficits. But walking freezing down a hill, I noticed it. That along with a deficiency in vitamin E despite large doses of the best absorbing E i could find led to a preliminary diagnosis of EDM. As she became more prone to suddenly attacking her best friend companion horse, dangerously stressed by the smallest changes in routine. I came in one morning and Deneb was not in her own stakl but in the one right next to it. She was screaming, hitting the walls and as panicked as is possible to imagine. I screamed at my barn manager due putting her in the wind streak and quickly switched her and she started to calm. Then I thought about it. Is it unsafe to all to have a horse at a boarding stable that was dangerous simply because she was put in the stall next door to her own. I asked my vet to please euthanize her. And she was post mortem confirmed to have EDM but without the neck degeneration. I assume this is why the ataxis was mild and hard to notice.
I don't know how I would have felt if I put her to sleep and was wrong about the diagnosis.

So I'm the middle of the night in a very quiet night shift i st dragged up this old thread.

I'm finishing it to possibly help someone who might have a horse with extreme behavior changes , to look for brain/ neurological issues. I'm told EDM is genetic and more prevalent in quarter horses, which Demeb was not, but had been found in others.

From the day I got her as a yearling, the horse transporter said to me, " I've transported thousands of horses and this one is different. " He wouldn't unload her on the road but carefully backed his giant rig into a pasture " for safety" . And he was right. She came off the trailer with dramatic anxiety and lack of self preservation and that was the first sign. It apparently begins to develop as a yearling.

She struggled for over a decade and I still felt like a murderer when I chose to terminate her life. Was it too early, was it too late. I don't know. Maybe someone can learn something helpful from this.

[exvet]

Chisamba, I not only feel your pain, I had a very similar experience. Merlin who was a 3/4 brother of my late stallion Resolute arrived at my ranch as a yearling. He was foaled in Tennessee and wasn't known to be anything but a healthy playful colt. He was intact. My hope was for he to my herd sire because his dam was my foundation mare. When he came off the trailer the driver commented that he had 'sea legs' and needed to get used to not moving. He had just driven straight through, about 21 hours on the road. It bothered me but in about 10 minutes he was walking normally. When I backed him as a late 3 year old he went down 3 separate times on me with me onboard. He never did anything naughty or spooked. We were out trail riding and negotiating difficult, uneven terrain. Again, I thought it odd and was worried but my (now ex) husband told me not to be so paranoid because he could see that the horse was sound. I started to show him and because he was an extremely extravagant mover was easily earning 70s at training level. Still I knew something wasn't right. I took him to a friend and told her to thoroughly examine him and give me her diagnosis (she's a board-certified veterinary surgeon). At 4 years old he was diagnosed as having dislocation between the the skull and C1. As he grew/matured his neurological signs became more apparent. He would fall at play in his turn out with the other colts. I gelded him and tried acupuncture to see if he could at least remain pasture sound. At age 5 I knew for the safety of everyone (though he looked perfect and often moved just fine) I had to put him down. I had so many people, so-called friends, criticized me horribly for not finding him a permanent home to live out his life. I didn't want him to hurt anyone else and I also didn't want him to go down in the Phoenix sun and die a slow death of heat-stroke. He was still an extravagant mover because he had NO proprioception of any of his 4 feet. I also feared that someone would try to take advantage of his good nature and lovely movement only to end in disaster. I still have people comment on my uncaring selfish decision; however, if I were faced with the same thing now (he was foaled in 2006) I would do the same thing.

You take care and know that you are deeply respected as a true knowledgeable horsewoman.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Chisamba, I'm so sorry to hear the unfortunate ending. I do commend you for sharing because it could be helpful to someone else with similar issues. EDM seems to be something vets are becoming much more aware of these days and it's devastating. I always heard it was most prevalent in warmbloods that are imported but I had not heard about it in QH's so often as well. This is valuable information.

I'm so sorry but she was a lucky mare to have you as her person, no doubt.

[Moutaineer]

Chisamba and exvet, I have nothing but the deepest respect for you as horsewomen and as knowledgeable, compassionate human beings.

[Josette]

Chisamba - I'm so sorry for Deneb. I do totally agree that you made the right but difficult humane and compassionate decision.

[Flight]

Chisamba, I totally agree that you did what you could and made the right decision for Deneb.

[StraightForward]

Thank you for sharing, Chisamba. You certainly gave her many chances and did right by her. Even without the post-mortem diagnosis, I think you did the right thing as it sounds like she was becoming increasingly dangerous and unhappy.

[Chisamba]

Chisamba, I not only feel your pain, I had a very similar experience. Merlin who was a 3/4 brother of my late stallion Resolute arrived at my ranch as a yearling. He was foaled in Tennessee and wasn't known to be anything but a healthy playful colt. He was intact. My hope was for he to my herd sire because his dam was my foundation mare. When he came off the trailer the driver commented that he had 'sea legs' and needed to get used to not moving. He had just driven straight through, about 21 hours on the road. It bothered me but in about 10 minutes he was walking normally. When I backed him as a late 3 year old he went down 3 separate times on me with me onboard. He never did anything naughty or spooked. We were out trail riding and negotiating difficult, uneven terrain. Again, I thought it odd and was worried but my (now ex) husband told me not to be so paranoid because he could see that the horse was sound. I started to show him and because he was an extremely extravagant mover was easily earning 70s at training level. Still I knew something wasn't right. I took him to a friend and told her to thoroughly examine him and give me her diagnosis (she's a board-certified veterinary surgeon). At 4 years old he was diagnosed as having dislocation between the the skull and C1. As he grew/matured his neurological signs became more apparent. He would fall at play in his turn out with the other colts. I gelded him and tried acupuncture to see if he could at least remain pasture sound. At age 5 I knew for the safety of everyone (though he looked perfect and often moved just fine) I had to put him down. I had so many people, so-called friends, criticized me horribly for not finding him a permanent home to live out his life. I didn't want him to hurt anyone else and I also didn't want him to go down in the Phoenix sun and die a slow death of heat-stroke. He was still an extravagant mover because he had NO proprioception of any of his 4 feet. I also feared that someone would try to take advantage of his good nature and lovely movement only to end in disaster. I still have people comment on my uncaring selfish decision; however, if I were faced with the same thing now (he was foaled in 2006) I would do the same thing.

You take care and know that you are deeply respected as a true knowledgeable horsewoman.

I feel you and learned something right here. Of course Deneb was an extravagant mover, she didn't know to be careful in her movement. And exvet. I totally agree, if i cannot safely keep a horse, I am certainly not going to unsafely " place" it .
The absolute worst thing about the barn fire was not being able to give my horses a " good death" . I am horrified at the idea of a prolonged uncomfortable unhappy life because of an incurable or uncontrollable medical condition. Maybe i have a distorted view because of the fire. But I trust and respect your opinion. I trust your decision and choice was difficult, hard thought and the best choice.

[texsuze]

Thanks, Chisamba and exvet for sharing your stories and baring your souls. You both gave all you could in attempting to turn things around for the better with your horses. I've learned so much in this space over the years from folks like yourselves. Somewhere I read "Behind every strong person there is a story that gave them no choice."

[khall]

Chisamba I hope you give yourself some grace with your decision on Deneb. I remember you reaching out to me after I had to put down Joplin’s dam because of colic. You affirmed my decision to not put a 16 yr old mare with other issues through colic surgery. I appreciated that support you gave me at that time. I don’t think I had shared that Anna was also having some weird ataxia as she aged. She never had any issues when I rode her behavioral wise but as she got older after Joplin was born she was becoming more unstable in her hind end. Not sure what it was. Definitely not her neck had explored that radiographicly. I did not do postmortem on her. I just euthanized and buried her.

Please give yourself credit for doing the absolute best you could do including euthanizing Deneb before she or someone got hurt. You did the right thing.

I would never call out anyone who decided to euthanize a horse that was not sound and not healthy to live their life without issues. Horses are expensive enough as it is without adding in major problems. It’s why I’ve decided if Rip has a second major issue I will euthanize him. His medication he takes for his airway is very expensive and I’m just not going to continue to dig an even bigger hole money wise to throw down when he is retired and of precarious health.

We all do the best we can and sometimes that means making hard decisions