July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

[StraightForward]

We had a good vet visit this morning. All of the swelling on her stifle was just subcutaneous, and no effusion in the joint. Whew. She was prescribed a few more days of bute, cold hosing and no riding. I'm off to California for a long weekend anyway, so hopefully will be able to pick up where we left off when I get home next Tuesday.

Enjoying all of the discussion, pics and videos!

Good to hear from Mari and Imperini with their lovely spotty steeds.

[Ryeissa]

I'm so glad its positive SF!
Yes, lots of spotted ponies!

[Chisamba]

I found all my horses preferred thinner bits in the double, but they most of them had some arabian blood so were small petite mouthed. actually that is not true, Kea was an Irish draught and she also preferred a thinner lighter double

[Rosie B]

Wow this thread exploded. We spent a week camping in New Hampshire, but now I'm back at it. I think this video shows some progress over the last one I posted... I know it's not perfect but I think the connection has improved somewhat, the SI looks a bit more steady, and the transitions are a bit better. What say you all?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUMVjcziYxQ

Looking at this video makes me think I might have eaten a bit too much bacon while camping.

[Chisamba]

Rosie B, i admit i did not watch the whole video as i was not on wifi, but yes, it does look steadier. Well done.
If i may offer a wee bit of advice, try not to kick so much. it might just have been my screen but it seemed like you kick every stride which horses can start just ignoring.

[Moutaineer]

Rosie B, Hah! I rode in front of the mirrors for the first time in months last weekend--yikes. Who's the old lady with a spare tire riding my horse?

Which is why Walker is moving to the boarding barn for a few weeks while I get my riding legs (and body) back with no excuses.

Major and rather painful personnel and boarder shakeup down there, which has opened up a couple of stalls. So I'm taking one over until I get kicked out by a new "real" boarder.

It's all good and means that I'm not longer feeling like I've got to move, which is a relief. I so dislike barn drama.

[musical comedy]

Wow this thread exploded. We spent a week camping in New Hampshire, but now I'm back at it. I think this video shows some progress over the last one I posted... I know it's not perfect but I think the connection has improved somewhat, the SI looks a bit more steady, and the transitions are a bit better. What say you all?

Keeps getting better. Up transtions to canter are more through now. Shoulder-in looks good. Connection is better. Tempo is better. I do not think you are kicking. I know my leg looks like that too. It's just some of us have more jiggly ankles, especially on springy horses.

[Rosie B]

Thanks Chisamba - you are right to some degree. Not so much in the sitting trot but I do tend to get too busy in the rising trot. Thanks for the reminder.

MC - Thank-you! That makes my day.

Mountaineer - are you swearing off bacon for a while too?

Here's what we did today. It was fun.

[musical comedy]

Rosie, he is a SUPER jumper!!! Wow, up, tight, even knees and a bascule over the back. My goodness, maybe you are in the wrong discipline. I had no idea you jumped. Now I will agree that jumping is fun, when you have the right horse.

OMG...just looked again and you are in a dressage saddle to boot. I'm not sure (maybe someone more knowledgable can help here) but I would be a bit concerned that the dressage tree may not be too confortable for a horse jumping.

[StraightForward]

Nice video Rosie - I really liked the W/C/W transitions. His jump looks amazing too!

[Ryeissa]

ywah, totally wrong dicipline....! wow!

[Chisamba]

Awesome

[Rosie B]

Well thanks guys!!

He's still really green at jumping. I've only ever done gymnastic jumping with him and he's still figuring out where to put his feet. I just try to keep out of his way and not interfere too much. But he is incredibly honest and has never stopped or run out. His form has improved tremendously with the little bit of jumping we've done. This pic was from just cantering the single fence with spacing poles, which after trotting into it a few times as a gymnastic, is MUCH easier.

Oh, and about the saddle. My dressage saddle doesn't have a very deep seat, and the flaps are a tiny bit forward, so jumping in it is very comfortable. I think I read somewhere that jumping in a dressage saddle is fine up to about 3', at which point it becomes an issue more for the rider than the horse. And I think if Bliss was uncomfortable he'd let me know.

[Flight]

Rosie B, nice vid! You don't look like you've eaten any bacon LOL!! I think it's all improving too. LOVE the jumping pic!!! Yes, I've been told its ok to jump up to 1 metre in a dressage saddle and only then it's really for the rider.

[musical comedy]

Yes, I've been told its ok to jump up to 1 metre in a dressage saddle and only then it's really for the rider.

I'm curious as to who is the authority that decides whether a dressage saddle makes a horse uncomfortable jumping? I mean..have there been studies on this. Anyway, Bliss is over-jumping and would be higher than 3 foot.

[Flight]

Not sure MC! I've been told by saddle fitters.

[Chisamba]

Yes, I've been told its ok to jump up to 1 metre in a dressage saddle and only then it's really for the rider.

I'm curious as to who is the authority that decides whether a dressage saddle makes a horse uncomfortable jumping? I mean..have there been studies on this. Anyway, Bliss is over-jumping and would be higher than 3 foot.

that would be the same authority that decided every horse needs a wide gullet, blah blah.

If you saw a tree sitting on a stand you would not be able to tell if it was supposed to be a dressage saddle or jumping saddle, the tree itself is very similar for the two. Of course there are saddle fitters on here who might be able to immediately see a difference but to my eye, their structure is very much the same, it is just the shape of the flaps and the billets that really differentiate the two. when they trace your horse for saddle fitting they take exactly the same tracing for a dressage, jumping or all purpose saddle. the horses back shape does not change from sport to sport, why would the tree?

I also agree if the horse found it uncomfortable it would let you know on landing.

[Chisamba]

The stall doors are all a flutter with ribbons and I am back to my regular riding. Had DS video me on the big boy, my clients >17 h warmblood x and I see myself sitting slightly behind the vertical. He feels big and perhaps I am using too much seat and falling back with my upper body.

Kimba was a bit rushy and sassy after masquerading as a hunter hack at the fair but it was nice to be back to dressage with her again.

[Moutaineer]

Well, I don't want to jinx it, but Vet said I can start thinking about getting back on Laddie at a walk soonish. (Solid timelines are not his forte, it would seem.)

[Ponichiwa]

Hurray, Mountaineer and Chisamba!

Re: jumping in dressage saddles-- the point billets on dressage saddles can interfere with some of the jumping motion if you're jumping big(ish?) jumps. If you don't have point billets, ignore this line.

I've got a Tale of Two Cities situation here. My new bits arrived!-- clearly, the best of times. It's been storming all week with flash flood warnings-- you get the gist here. Maybe next week.

I'm graduating on Friday-- finally finished my masters!-- but am hoping to get back in the saddle and trying out my new bits over the weekend.

[Chisamba]

Mountaineer, when you start walking under saddle is he likely to be a horse or a kite? I hope he is back into light work, at least, soon

[Flight]

That's great Mountaineer Hoping no jinxing and it all goes well.
I got bored and decided to try and ride yesterday. Thought I'd only walk and do lateral work in walk. Well, you need both legs to work for that!! Knee wasn't too painful or anything, it just doesn't respond properly. So, I'll give it another week or two before I try again..
Did some inhand work with the big horse, he always got a bit anxious with it, so because I can only walk very slowly it was good for him. Might keep doing that with both ponies.
I can drive my car now too! It's a manual so I'm a bit rough with the gear changes But yay for being mobile.

[khall]

Bad day at the farm today viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2230

Hard to move on.

I hope all Deneb, Laddie and Flight are on the mend and don't over do it!

[Moutaineer]

I'm sorry, Khall, tough when it's so sudden and unexpected.

Chisamba, I don't know about Laddie. I'm going to wait for a warm, humid day before I even try!

I'm having a blast with Walker. Because I don't feel the need to overthink things with him, I can focus on me and my position... and guess What? When I get it right, he gets it right! I've been focusing on the "shoulders back and down" thing. It's very stabilizing and helps so much with quiting the hand and achieving a draped leg.

He's having a fine time living at the horse Ritz being pampered and increasing his fan club too. Love that horse, even if he can be incredibly naughty sometimes. I've told everyone he's just lulling them into a false sense of security before he does something outrageous.

[Srhorselady]

Khall I'm so sorry. When something happens like that with no warning it is so traumatic that it hurts even more.

Everyone else dealing with human and horse/pet health issues (there have been so many this summer) please hang in there. I'm wishing you all quick recoveries.

Ive been crying onto my keyboard when I read several of these messages this summer. Is it my imagination or have there been more than usual recently? I suppose it is because the population of this board has so many animals that we are close to. I feel like we all need a Blessing of the animals and a general well wishing for good health to all their human partners.

[Rosie B]

khall - I'm so sorry for you and your boarder. That just sucks.

Mountaineer - fingers crossed you will be able to get back on soon!!

I had a friend come out today and get some video. It was heartening to see that the consistency of the connection has improved somewhat, but disheartening to see that it's not anywhere near where it needs to be yet. As I mentioned on the other thread, my equitation needs some serious work. Shoulder blades need to be GLUED back and down. There were some nice moments though. I hope you guys aren't getting sick of Bliss pics yet, because here are some more.

[Tsavo]

That's a beautiful animal and you are doing great training him.

I think if you try to just push your hand forward 1/16 of an inch and use your seat/leg to fill the space it might help. Think that every molecule of your horse and your self and especially your hands are moving forward absent any impedance.

Lead with your belly button and he will take that I bet.

[demi]

Nice pics Rosie. Thanks for posting.

I can visualize exactly what Tsavo said above. It's just a tiny physical correction(1/16 of an inch!) and then a great mental image. ...

[Ryeissa]

very nice! you remind me of me, as part of supporting my upper body I need to make sure the lower back stays filled.

[Tsavo]

very nice! you remind me of me, as part of supporting my upper body I need to make sure the lower back stays filled.

Excellent point! So important to flatten the lumbar.

I thought about suggesting that Rosie go from the slight "C" shape she is in to a slight "D" shape with her torso but I refrained because I was worried she would loose her lumbar position. It is like M. Wanless says wherein you have to expand to the front AND the back of your lower torso. It reduces to the bear down she talks about.

[musical comedy]

You guys are tough. I don't see a thing wrong with Rosie's position. You're picking the fly poop out of the pepper.

[Srhorselady]

MC LOL

[Rosie B]

MC - they are right though. I am letting at least 30-40% of the available connection and power out the door by not using my torso correctly.

Tsavo - your advice was spot on. I was 100% committed in my ride today to having my shoulders down and back, hands forward, and to be feeling as though I was pushing with the back of my belly button up through my hands. And Bliss was transformed. He felt super steady in the connection, super straight, and super powerful.

I had a shorter ride today because it was HARD - for both of us no doubt. But at the end of it I was holding my shoulders back and chest open subconsciously which is a good indicator that I was keeping them there during my ride (I am naturally very long in the torso and a bit round shouldered).

Now to ride that way every time.

[Tsavo]

Rosie that is so great. As MC said you are starting from a pretty correct position. So you only need tiny adjustments that have very big bang for the buck. You look athletic in the right way for riding so that is great.

[musical comedy]

MC - they are right though. I am letting at least 30-40% of the available connection and power out the door by not using my torso correctly.

That second photo in your list is pretty faultless imo. Well pfft, I'd better just hang up my spurs then because if I got pics of myself looking like that I'd think I was all that and a bag-o-chips. The bottom line though, is what kind of quality and improvement you can get in your horse. If this change in position gives you better work, then it is needed. Are you planning on getting off to a show this year before Winter?

[Rosie B]

Well thanks MC. I have a couple clinics planned in September and October, but no shows. Showing is a lot of fun, but it doesn't get us anywhere really. I am not sure that I want to show again until we're ready to show 3rd level. Which will be a while.

[piedmontfields]

Rosie, I am never tired of photos of the lovely Bliss and I think you are doing really good riding, too! I think it is extra hard on the nice movers to maintain effective equitation. I can believe that the "filling out front and back" image is useful. I think when you are even more there, you'll find that your knee and heel drop too (that's a sign for me personally when my core is active and connected). You have a similar athletic body type to Dresseur so I'm betting her commentary over time on position has been helpful.

Lately the theme of my rides have been....consistency. Consistency of connection, consistency of tempo, consistency of stride length (with whatever stride length we are doing). We have come a long way in the last year but this is still really good work for us. We had some truly nice counter canter work today with good consistency and impulsion. And one good clean change on the easy side (in front of the freshly cleaned mirrors, so I know it was clean! ). I'd been putting off attacking the changes due to heat, a busy arena (so many jump, poles and people to ride around) and just looking at the canter quality in motion. We're close to going back in for real this time. Her canter is so much better than it was in spring.

[Rosie B]

Piedmont that sounds awesome!! Yay for clean changes!

OK last pic for a while. This pic tells me everything I need to know about the positional tweaks I made yesterday. Leftie still needs to give more in general, but I am pretty happy with this.

[StraightForward]

Wow, that really looks fantastic Rosie!

I am trying to get back to riding since Annabelle fell two weeks ago. I did a short ride on Friday while waiting for the bodyworker, and she could no longer turn right. Tried again today but she was being a total nutbar on the lunge, and I was wearing my slippery riding tights, so I opted for in-hand work instead. She is moving better than ever though, and tracking up almost evenly now, which is a huge improvement over a couple months ago.

[Flight]

Yes, your position looks super in that last pic Rosie B! Mind you, they are always pretty good - I'd love to look like that.

I've started teaching Ding Spanish walk. It was a bit slow at first, but then used food reward and he's getting the hang of it so quickly now LOL! I should have started with food for him, he loves snacks.

[Tsavo]

It is obvious you made those changes! You look so effective sitting there towards the pommel and he appears to be listening to your seat. You are a beautiful rider.

Do you think the reason you curl and drop your left wrist is because you let the rein get too long? I had a problem with dropping my left hand. A curled wrist is a backward hand. What helped me was focusing for several rides on maintaining the right rein length and adding "helium hands". Try to imagine your hands are filled with helium and that they stay up for that.

Also one of the best exercises I have ever done was juggling the hands. Just rhythmically alternate up and down with the hands with one up while the other is down and visa versa. My horse LOVED LOVED LOVED this and this would reliably put him correctly on the bit. I have no idea why it works other than to think I was not being elastic enough and needed to allow more movement with the bit. I really think my horse interprets juggling the hands a a reward. I am NOT kidding. I have used it that way.

I think the juggling is from Felicitas von Neumann-Cosell.

[Tsavo]

If you can uncurl and not drop your left hand you will be a dead ringer for I. Klimpe! How is that for motivation???

[Chisamba]

You guys are tough. I don't see a thing wrong with Rosie's position. You're picking the fly poop out of the pepper.

love this, and agree

[Imperini]

Well we don't have anything on Rosie and Bliss but I have some new pictures. I must admit I'm slightly disappointed because I thought I'd made more improvements re flying off the back of the saddle at the canter but it appears not so much. Going to keep at it so eventually each tiny improvement will eventually be a big improvement. Also have picked back up with exercising and stretches and hopefully will see benefits from that. Trying to think of more ways to keep things interesting for P because she seems bored like she's just tolerating me because she's a good girl and I would like for her to enjoy our interactions or at least be more interested. Maybe she'd have a little more oomph if things were more interesting for her.

On another subject I'm curious because I know I'm incredibly stiff but I'm not sure how flexible most other people are (who aren't in the yoga videos I'm watching ). How much "play" does your leg have when you're sitting on your horse? Can you lift both legs up off the saddle? One at a time? At the same time? Once I'm there I'm kind of jammed in, I can lift a leg up one at a time with a lot of effort and it usually causes pain and/or cramping and I was curious about others because I don't think that's the case for most people.

Anyway here's the pictures. I tried to get one of the same moment of canter as my last pic but missed slightly. I think it might be a tiny bit better but not as better as I'd hoped for.





Trot too. Shoulders get rounded. I feel like my arms aren't long enough but I guess if the shoulders were down they wouldn't need to be longer

[Dresseur]

Imperini, I think that you HAVE made progress! One thing that I think will make a difference for you (based on still photos, vid may tell another story) is that your base of support may need to be more grounded. By that I mean that your leg is in front of you, so it's not just about holding yourself up to the pommel, it's about getting your leg back and down. It looks as though you are drawing your leg up in an effort to help hold you to the horse, which is another indicator to me that you need to get your legs under you. Doing that will allow you to sit more upright and not fall back toward the cantle.

At the trot, can you sit a few strides and then stand straight up in the saddle (and I do mean stand up, with a very open hip angle). If you can't - it's a very clear answer to where you can make improvements. It's a self correcting exercise and you don't need mirrors or anything fancy. In terms of flexibility - if you can stand up straight, you can open your hip angle enough to be in a balanced position. Where flexibility comes in is in moving your leg behind the girth, and being able to turn your leg in from the hip (which puts your thigh on the saddle and your toes pointed to the front). That all can be improved over time. I don't pull my legs out to the side away from the saddle. It gives me horrible cramps lol.

Rosie, you are making huge improvements, the last trot pic is quite good! I must say, I am jealous of your long legs lol! I would see what raising your hands slightly does to help you keep your shoulders back and down - remember to ride up to your hands.

[kande50]

At the trot, can you sit a few strides and then stand straight up in the saddle (and I do mean stand up, with a very open hip angle).

Just a small addendum to this: one doesn't have to give up their reins to do this exercise, but if they can't give their hands forward while standing then they need to hold onto something other than the reins and keep practicing.

I switched to a western saddle for trail riding recently, and have been all discombobulated for over a month now. The seat's a little too big for me which doesn't help, but I think I'm finally adjusting because we trotted across the bridge yesterday to try to beat the traffic and I found myself standing up in my stirrups to look behind me. It's a good feeling.

[kande50]

Maybe she'd have a little more oomph if things were more interesting for her.

What an interesting color she is.

It looks like you have the ability to ride in any position you want to ride in, which makes me think you might be somehow blocking yourself in your efforts to influence your horse?

I wonder if you started on a much lighter rein and worked on forward, and then just very gradually took up a softer, lighter contact and then just tweaked it a little here and a little there, if that might help?

[Sue B]

Impirini, in answer to your questions...yes, I can lift one or both legs up off the saddle despite having incredibly huge thigh blocks on Rudy's saddle. Then again, I've been doing dressage for over 40 years now so my body thinks that stuff is normal. Do I sometimes get leg cramps doing that? Oh yes, hurts like a bugger!

I see a great deal of progress in your riding and in your horse is gorgeous.

My suggestion for you overall would be to figure out how to get your shoulders down and back. Maybe every other stride or so roll them forward, up, then back and down. You will be amazed how much more stable your core becomes, freeing up you thighs to hangs down and back, and freeing up your arms to be soft and forward too. Idk, just a suggestion. Took me years to figure that one out myself.

Meanwhile, I am actually back in the saddle again but the boys seem to have decided they aren't quite ready to go back into work. No matter, both horses are always fun to ride and I look forward to when they are back in working mode.

[musical comedy]

Rosie, you are making huge improvements, the last trot pic is quite good! I must say, I am jealous of your long legs lol! I would see what raising your hands slightly does to help you keep your shoulders back and down - remember to ride up to your hands.

She has a straight line from bit to elbow. Raising the hand would lose that.

[piedmontfields]

Imperini, I agree that your photos show progress! It is great to see the beautiful Paloma. Along with the other ideas for your continued seat development, I'll throw in that you might try losing your stirrups and exploring trot-canter-trot transitions. I think it might help you sit into your horse.

For exercise/pattern ideas, I love the Jec Ballou's book 101 Dressage Exercises. There are so many ideas there and you can adjust them to your level (ex. do them in walk or trot instead of canter as needed). I will admit that when I hear riders say "my horse is bored" I think it is because their riders are bored and are boring! and are not paying attention and expecting the same from their horses I do think learning to ride with focus and attention takes practice, and can be a skill that is built over time.