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I've been pondering the above terms because of what a couple of posters on the keep calm thread posted about. One was the videos that piedmont posted on lateral work. Also Kelo talking about the moving from one lateral movement to another and exvet talking about quickening the hind legs of Junior. This is a bit of musing on my part:

I went and looked up these terms according to the USDF

SUPPLENESS
Range of motion of joints and the ability to move the joints freely. Also described as flexibility. The opposite of stiffness. A horse’s suppleness is largely determined by genetics but may over time be improved or negatively impacted through training.

COLLECTION/COLLECTED (WALK, TROT, OR CANTER)
At trot and canter, a pace with shorter steps and a more uphill balance than in the working pace, with no sacrifice of impulsion. The horse’s frame is shorter, with the neck stretched and arched upward. The tempo remains nearly the same as in the medium or extended pace.
At walk, a pace with shorter steps and a more uphill balance than in the medium walk, with no sacrifice of activity. The neck oscillates less than in the medium and extended paces and the frame is shorter, with the neck stretched and arched upward. The tempo remains nearly the same as in the medium or extended pace.
Note: It is a common misconception that the hind legs step further forward under the body in collection. This is not consonant with the shorter strides required in collection. In the collected paces, the hind feet are picked up relatively sooner after passing behind the hip and spend relatively more time on the ground (stance phase).

MOBILITY
Easy maneuverability/nimbleness of the shoulders/forehand/forelegs, made possible by a narrowing and shortening of the horse’s base of support.

ELASTICITY
The ability or tendency to stretch and contract the musculature smoothly, giving the impression of stretchiness or springiness.

IMPULSION
Thrust of the hind legs, releasing the energy stored by engagement. The thrust is transmitted through a back that is free from negative tension and is manifested in the horse’s elastic, whole-body movement.
Note 1: Impulsion is present only in gaits that have a phase of suspension (trot, canter, passage) but not in walk or piaffe, which have energy but not impulsion.
Note 2: For purposes of the Pyramid of Training, the German term “Schwung” is translated as “Impulsion” (see Foreign Terms and Pyramid of Training sections).

CENTER OF MASS (CENTER OF GRAVITY)
The point at which the mass of the body can be considered to be concentrated, and around which its weight is evenly distributed or balanced. The horse’s center of mass is located at the 13th or 14th rib and just below the line from the point of the shoulder to the point of the hip. This puts it below the seat of the saddle. In collection, the horse’s body rotates around the center of mass.



Kelo spoke of using the different lateral movements to develop suppleness, I've always looked at these movements to help develop mobility to narrow the base of the horse by encouraging the hind leg to step under the center of mass (COM). Though as I ponder this more I can see how asking for even more range of motion with in the lateral work (as Kelo spoke of asking for biggest effort from the horse in the movement) can improve the suppleness or the range of motion of the joints. I actually do this when I ask for stepping over in rotation, a moving TOF and then renvere on small circle. This asking of the hind leg to step across the center line helps to mobilize the hip and supple them. I also do this when I ask the horse to lift the hind leg in response to the whip aid. To show the horse they can flex the 3 joints of the hind leg. I also can see where Spanish Walk can improve the ROM of the front legs. The Valenca's in Portugal use the understanding the horse has of SW to teach some of them passage.

exvet spoke of quickening the hind legs of Junior to improve his collection in the canter for FC work. I completely agree with this thought, but how do we go about doing this? Exvet talks of using forward and back within the gait to improve the hind legs (I struggle with this because I often use too much hand in the down transition which blocks the hind legs) I do better asking for lateral movements to help the engagement of the hind legs. HI in canter to quicken the outside hind leg, half pass is also good to help the engagement. I've also because of tsavo and dresseur started doing more transitions between gaits in lateral work, very good at improving engagement.

So the reason I am posting this is to get feedback from you all what you do to help develop these qualities in your training. One of the things I struggle with Rip and Gaila is suppleness and elasticity. They are big muscled powerful horses but more built for power than suppleness. That extreme rotation/stepping over I have found to help Rip and Gaila be more supple and the piaffe work has definitely changed Rip's suppleness. It is a project though. I am also trying to develop more cadence in Rip's trot (his collected canter is quite good) I am doing this by going from extreme collection piaffe work to medium/extended gaits.

I was also watching a Karen Rohlf video on stretching to collection type work and the feeling she wants to keep the let looseness of stretching in collection. i.e. not get tight in the back when asking for collection. That I don't really have issues with, but I do feel moving between the two helps with suppleness and thoroughness.

I also ponder the role of impulsion in this which is difficult for my energy conservative WBs. How much does suppleness affect impulsion?

Reading chisamba's post about Kimba (though I don't have trouble with Rip and purity of gait) I do have trouble with engagement in the trot and I too feel setting the boundaries with the reins is helpful in explaining to them about engagement. I wrote about this on the neck conformation thread how I used the reins to explain to Rip how to lift up out of the base of the neck. Doing so helped get his front end out of the way so the hind legs could be more active. Kind of back ward but worked for him.
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Anyway, just some musings on the intricacies of the work we do and how we approach each horse.

I had a lesson today and before we began my coach asked me how it has been going. I told her that I felt we were making progress. I had worked all week on two main concepts. First, to quicken the response of the hind leg I did halt walk transitions where I demanded the right/correct connection both in the halt and in the step off into the walk where his hind legs were taking the first steps and his back/neck was relaxed. I also did this through trot halt transitions. Second, I did transitions within the gaits especially in the canter making sure that Junior was stepping all the way through to the bridle especially on his hollow side (right rein). This was absolutely key. I do not want him backing away from the connection during my flying changes because then they're not going to happen or they'll be late behind. Still my conundrum has been teaching him to change from one side to the other because he is so stinking balanced in the counter canter; so, I found that going to simple changes where I did true canter on the long side, counter canter on the short side and made my change as I approached the corner with one to no walk steps as the goal...this of course required that we were very correct and true to our collected canter and could move in and out of it with ease.........well we eventually developed it into "the no walk steps" which were the flying changes and they were clean. So for the lesson my coach decided to have me work on transitions within the gait, maintaining the proper degree of connection (coming through and finishing into the bridle with the appropriate weight/power) throughout the transitions. She then had me demonstrate my exercise to be sure that we were performing clean changes. We did. Now it's no where near the quality that I want to end up with but they're clean and he's getting the idea of changing from one side to the other. More importantly is that Junior isn't getting blocked in the neck or through the shoulders/front end like so many of 'my' horses have done in the past. I am more conscious of mobilizing his shoulders in the warm up and not letting him out of the requirement of proper connection over the back. No shrinking violet (so true power and impulsion at the touch of the calf and/or flick of the whip) but no tightness and/or counter productive tension where he's becoming a balled up fire plug either. She's says my approach is working ......so we'll see. One thing that is definitely ringing in my ears these days as I do this is Paula Kierkegaard's voice telling me over and over that mediums and extensions are borne out of proper collection and taking the weight on the hind with properly folding joints....

I also have been showing Junior with momentary upward lifting of the reins which is imperceptible to the eye but is enough for him to get the idea that I want him to raise his withers and lift up through his shoulder sling at the trot and canter especially in collection. My coach says it's looking pretty good and It certainly feels right.

Every now and then Junior tries to blow me off but he's giving me more right answers than wrong ones these days; so, I'm pretty happy with our progress and his muscling certainly appears to be agreeing with mine/our assessment of that progress.

Wow, there are lot of great questions and reflections already in this thread. Thank you.

One comment is that I do have to work with/through the horse that I have. If you've never ridden a naturally supple horse, you might think my horse was reasonably supple, as it's pretty easy to go through the lateral work her. But if you have, you would instantly feel that she really isn't. She is *more supple* than she would be on her own without training, thanks to the work she's done. That short back/short neck make it pretty challenging for us to achieve really delicious suppleness.

To follow ExVet's comments on shoulder mobility, I feel like I only recently really get how critical shoulder mobility is for a good connection that can receive power from the hinds. Otherwise, I can get a kink in the neck. I wish I had learned this earlier! I love that exercise with the counter canter and 1 or 0 walk steps because if we are not correct, we go splat or sway to one side. It is very revealing.

Thanks exvet for responding and writing even more clearly how you are going about FCs with Junior. Very helpful and something to work on as well. I understand your focus on the commitment Junior needs to progress, the focus and precision we need to focus on. That is a good reminder. Yes so agree about medium/extensions coming from good collection. I have been blessed to have had that feeling in one of my former horses that I rode and trained in the 90's. His extensions (he was OTTB) earned him 8-9's, that feeling of just opening the door and allowing the restrained power out, where he sucked you down into the saddle and lifted in the front and to come back with just a bit of SI and a breath. Rip does not have that:/ He does not want to commit to the power needed for that, though it is better. I can see where Junior will have that power and lift for good extensions already. Lovely shoulder as well.

Piedmont I hope this will bring some good discussion. There are so many pieces to riding dressage! I've ridden naturally supple horses, both that I have lessoned on and trained myself. My OTTB was and amazing mover and so talented, problems with tension though. I have found the Iberians to be much easier in the lateral work than my WBs are. My holistic vet says in her palpation of them they have almost hyper mobile joints unlike my power house WBs.

I would caution with the Iberian body type that hyper mobile/hyper reactive is not the same as "supple" IMO. Obviously some Lusitanos/Andalusians are very supple, but they tend to have a more "modern" dressage body type.

Thanks for starting this Khall. I’ve noticed in just the last week that when I have Rocky in the “frame” (I know that word can cause alarm! But I dont know how better to describe what I’m talking about) that feels best for doing things, she doesn’t have any flexibility in her hocks at the canter. So this would fit under the category of suppleness.

Anyway, I noticed this in watching the vids that I am taking almost daily. I only put her in this particular frame( I posted it on the goals thread and some of you noticed it) at the canter toward the end of the normally 30 minute session. Even though I like that frame because she feels in the right position to respond more quickly to my requests, the video looks like it is putting too much stress on the hocks and consequently other joints. So I tried lengthening my reins by two inches and letting her head/neck a little lower, and the video showed there was more flexibility in the hock this way. Unfortunately, I just did the video test yesterday and the soloshot was acting up and didnt record the whole session. I got enough of the left canter to see that it was more supple, but no right canter. I think i know what soloshot’s problem was so I’ll try again today and post to this thread if I can. The lack of suppleness (flexibility in the hock in my case) isn’t visible on still shots.

This is an awesome topic. I have a little bit of a stream of consciousness but also hopefully will address some of the comments/points.

So one of the things that I've been taught is that there are 3 drivers in a horse - the shoulders, the back, and the hind end. You have to have control of all 3 drivers to have a supple, connected horse and to have a truly uphill, carrying horse. A couple things on that. There is a difference between a back with good tension and a frozen back. As the demands for collection increase - the back should start to feel like flexible steel. There should be a certain amount of tensile strength to it - but never frozen. If the back sags like a hammock, you lose the clean drive of the hindquarters up through the shoulders and in movements like piaffe/passage, the hind legs will get left out behind.

The shoulders need to be free, and they need to yield. My lesson this weekend put this in black and white. I was complaining that Miro felt a bit down in the shoulder, that he was diving in my voltes, even though when I looked in the mirror he appeared well uphill. Andrea watch very carefully and on a volte where I was coming towards her, and he had stiffened the base of his neck, she asked me why I didn't leg yield out of the circle. I said, well, I felt the stiffness, and I thought that I needed him to follow the rein a bit better, which is why I asked for the circle, and I used my inside leg. She said, but did his shoulders yield? So I rode the circle again, and this time, when I felt the bit of stiffness, very clearly leg yielded him out a step or two and voila, the shoulders came up and I got the feel I have after she's been on him. Miro is incredibly flexible. He will bend body parts this way and that and fake bend. While he is incredibly flexible, it is hard for him to maintain connection with a strong, flexible back - that's suppleness to me in terms of training. (The USDF uses it more as the inherent range of motion in the gaits, but I personally find it more valuable as a training term.) You should be able to bend the horse and ask for a little of this and a little of that and they stay strong and connected and can be let in and out longitudinally and laterally, that you can go from 15 meters to 8 meter circles with no loss of balance and no hiccups in rhythm.

The hindquarters need to be quick - meaning no long, lazy, out behind steps. Nor should there be a frenetic tempo. There needs to be a jump to the step. It is important in movements to not let the hind legs slow down. Lateral movements tend to bleed impulsion, so during lateral movements, you need to be militant about the rhythm staying true. If you have hiccups in the rhythm, it usually means that the horse is stiffening somewhere. You should be able to put your leg on and the horse shifts cleanly away from you. In changes, it's imperative that the horse not slow down and "pause" before the change, in piris, things need to stay quick and in passage and piaffe, the hind legs need to keep active. These are all things we know, but in practice it gets hard to execute, especially if the horse is just taking a tiny bit off the top with each movement.

To develop suppleness - for instance, on a horse like Miro, we had to push the bend and ask for more than what we ordinarily would, and we had to break movements up with voltes, leg yields and serpentines often so that he got the memo that leg goes on, rein indicates - that does not mean you stiffen. And we took movements to quarter line so that there was no wall to "lean" on. This is a horse that can turn himself into a pretzel. Yet he struggled with true bend. We also used travers on a circle in trot and canter to help him. As he gained strength, his shoulders (already very free by nature) gained expression and he actually started to pick up his knees.

For keeping the hind legs quick, I count, particularly in the changes on Miro since he wants to pause on the left to right change. And we do forward and back within the gaits and lots of transitions. On him, transitions are a double edged sword because his ls is so flexible that he can easily triangulate and rock forward onto his shoulders rather than bearing weight behind, which is why I like to do them within the lateral work. We also do passage to extension on him as a test to see if he's staying up and quick behind. Sometimes he smoothly goes from one to the other, sometimes he grabs and lurches - but it's always a tell.

I think the biggest thing overall for me is to pay attention to what the back is doing and where it's stiffening. In the canter, I need there to be a bit of undulation - in the changes, he freezes just in front of the saddle, behind the wither. Often times he freezes in the base of the neck. In the canter, he can freeze a bit behind the saddle. The fixes are different for each one. In the changes, we think long and low so that he can't leverage up. In the canter, forward and back keeps him rolling and for the base of the neck, circles, leg yields and serpentines.

Well, I don't think you will ever hear me claim to be a classical trainer using the precise textbook definitions, so if you're reading my posts with absolute literal translations, it might get a little confusing. I guess my personal definition of suppleness is more similar to what Dresseur says above -- I am referencing his back and connection and the relative relaxation in his body. Although it all ultimately comes back to the hind leg and getting that under my full control.

So in my case, discussing using lateral work for suppleness. When I ask The Cowpony for a certain level of collection, his first instinct is often to stiffen his back and raise his head/neck in an effort to lift up his front end. This might be anything from an obvious raising above the bit, or much more commonly he just stiffens for a fraction of a heartbeat when I ask him to move into a new maneuver with increased collection.

You can hide that heartbeat of protest, and I have, but it's biting me in the butt at GP because everything is so extreme. So my instructor is attempting to reteach us, and there are a lot of exercises we're doing to improve all parts - quality of gaits, quality of connection, quality of suppleness, quality of the collection, quickness of the hind legs, etc.

The lateral work I described was just part of my warmup, and what I was trying to get across was the fact that I was able to switch around between these exercises without any hesitation or resistance, while he stayed loose over his back, honest in the connection, and mentally with me. Not only when I first asked, but then still when I asked him for bigger and more extravagant gaits for him. A big change for us and a sign I'm getting my training right.

Transitions are the key to all these things. ( I find)

Let me define transitions.

A) between gaits. Pretty obvious. Walk to trot. Trot to walk et al.

B) transitions within the gait. Now despite the ideal of not changing tempo, just shape of stride, I think this is very dependent on degree of skill in the horse. Sometimes it IS just slower and faster.

C) Transitions in bend as in serpentine or into and out of lateral work.

Why do I find transitions are key? Because they tell you so much about the horse you are riding in that instant and the rider you are being in that instant.

It seems like I am changing the topic but imho I am not.

If your horse stiffens into Shoulder In...you need to work on shoulder mobility and base of neck.

Horse hollows, it needs to learn to reach into the bit through the transition

If your horse stiffens out of Shoulder In you need to teach or ride the outside rein better.

If the horse leans into your hand on downward transitions you need a more active hind leg into the down ( I usually do a stride or two of shoulder in into the transition to help that but sometimes a touch with the whip into the downward transition is a good tool)

I cannot describe every clue that is revealed in transitions but they are all there.

With Kimba for example I am currently working on many serpentine . I am also back to truly improving simple changes. Canter/ counter canter. Even on a circle.

Why? Because she showed me in my flying changes that I lose her shoulder placement and mobility. So simple changes seem to be a good exercise to improve this.

It's the riders job to help the horse believe the task you set is possible and worthwhile.

I believe we progress by revealing our mistakes and repairing them. Transitions are the reveal.

Dresseur ' I tell my students the horse is built like a train with three coaches. Maybe I should polish up my literacy and call them drivers but there are probably 4. The horse does not inherently carry its head and neck in the same way as the shoulder. So head and neck, shoulders, back, and hind . Again jmho

Chisamba, I loved reading your descriptions - I agree whole heartedly with you. And I can see head/neck as being part of the "drivers". For instance, if the horse stiffens in the poll or jaw, that cascades back to the hind as well.