A horse that is "too forward"

[Chancellor]

Hello DDBB friends. I need some advice. I have an occasional student who comes to me over the winter for dressage lessons. She has a Paso Fino named Pincel. He is a love.
Most of the year he stays at home turned out 24/7 in his owner's back yard. They trail ride (and usually go pretty damn fast out on the trail). She brings hm in for January February and March.
Last year, he was sooooooo fast all the time. Usually, when a horse has done well, I give them a walk break. This one will just not walk. Last year, I said, ok, stand and catch your breath!
She brought him in this year again and due to circumstances, we only have the month of March to work with him.
Last night, I was teaching him and he just would not walk. Last year, we would sometimes let him have a canter around the arena but that really just winds him up more.
Now the owner's reflexes are not quite fast enough to give him a correction when he starts winding up from walk to jig. And I am frankly too old and fat to get on any horse right now.
Last night, I had the owner get off him and started working with him in hand with the command WAIT! That helped and he did seem to get a bit better.

Frankly, I have never had a horse who was THIS quick. You can barely give him a leg aid or he goes scooting off. Last week, we did some lateral work like baby leg yield which worked pretty ok. But I'd like other ideas.

And yes, before anyone says it, I realize that this horse is not truly "forward" but looking for ideas to work with him.

[khall]

Frequent change of directions. I also like in hand work to teach relaxation in the bridle aka jaw flexions and to teach lateral work. I use sideways for those who are charging around.

[piedmontfields]

I have ridden Pasos like this!

The lateral suggestion also works because it breaks up their "fino" gait and helps them land in a walk and then maybe a halt that you can praise. Many gaited horses find bending lines pretty challenging (unless they are ridden regularly with them). I think the voice training is a good idea too!

[heddylamar]

Walking in tight serpentines in a super exaggerated nose to horse's knee flexion worked great for my old eventer.

We warmed up at the canter, counter canter, and quick canter-walk transitions. Then the walk serpentines. By then she was normally relaxed and attentive enough that her anxiety didn't take over.

[Ponichiwa]

Not familiar with Pasos specifically or gaited horses in general, but an exercise that has worked for hot horses in my past is:

"Ribbon candy" tight serpentines in counterflexion. Reinforces the message that the work isn't overwhelming but there will be different requests, so the horse is wise to yield some of that tension. May be better in trot if the walk is not accessible.

[Chancellor]

Ponichiwa...are you reading Lynne s book? Ribbon candy is exactly what I've tried. But still we are struggling

[Ponichiwa]

Re: book-- Not to my knowledge. I got this exercise from a trainer I rode with several years ago.

Will say that my hot-headed mare (who is now enjoying a retired life) needed lots and lots of time in the ribbon-candy exercise before she'd relax. I would start up in the trot (walk was potentially explosive) and give walk breaks whenever I got 2 consecutive loops that were steady in the tempo and in the bridle... and it would take easily 15 min to get there.

Transitions tended to upset her, so we just did miles of varying sizes of serpentines. I'd play a bit with the tempo (can I trot slower? what about even slower) but not so much as would blow her mind, which was always a bit of a balancing act. And I'd also play with the flexion. 2 loops with left flexion, 2 loops with right flexion, every loop in true flexion, every loop in counter flexion... the goal is to get the horse OK with the idea that you can affect parts of his/her body without his/her world ending in cataclysmic doom.

And finally-- rider needs to be very self-contained for this work. You can't react to the horse's tension or it breathes new life into it; have to just pretend that everything is fine even when the horse beneath you feels like a nervous wreck. That means monitoring your breathing and constantly checking that you're not holding tension somewhere in your body.

[Moutaineer]

Does the owner ride with her leg off most of the time? He might be less explosive if she could get him used to a draped leg "hug," so the aids are less sudden.

[blob]

How is she when being led? I might do a lot of ground work--first leading and rewarding when she stops and waits. Then move to lunging at a walk in a small circle and teaching 'whoa' and 'walk on'.

[khall]

A pass fino that gaits will not be able to gait and bend at the same time. At least not without some significant work

I’m more familiar with TWH and racking horses. Pasos have a squarer gait. Short and quick They’re not trained for lateral flexibility

Mark worked with quite a few in his career. He would do the bridle work and in hand work. Jaw releases neck releases. Get the parasympathetic ns activated.

[Flight]

I have no idea about paso finos but I would work a lot to get relaxation before working or even riding first. So they can just stand and relax. Walk and halt and relax etc.
Goodluck!

[Chancellor]

Does the owner ride with her leg off most of the time? He might be less explosive if she could get him used to a draped leg "hug," so the aids are less sudden.

This is a good idea. You are correct that her leg is off all the time.
Of course the challenge will be having him accept the leg at all.

[Chisamba]

Of course you already know that the problem is so bad becks the rider has allowed it for so long.

I would use my previously described bend to a stop and relax drop the rein remain standing protocol. From experience I'd say it will take several days of serious commitment to alter the habit.

This link is a bit deceptive because it's done on such a relaxed horse but it describes the principle well.
https://youtu.be/G0UvsflOiQ4

I realize it is not dressage but it's safety first for me now that I'm an older and avoiding being a crash test dummy and still take on clients dangerous horses

[Chancellor]

Chisamba, I like that. We will give that a try on Monday!

[Chisamba]

Chisamba, I like that. We will give that a try on Monday!

I teach it in hand first I take the inside bend and let the horse circle me while I stand still till it stops and pays attention

[StraightForward]

I know nothing of gaited horses, but I've been watching some new videos on Tristan Tucker's site and incorporating some of it in my work with Tesla. She tends more to brace against the leg, so I'm doing it to loosen the ribcage, but relaxation is relaxation.

Anyway, it starts with the forward bending part of his "pattern" which is basically, when done from the ground, just the horse stepping the outside shoulder out, bringing the neck softly in, and stepping the inside hind nicely under the body (he seems to be going away from the backing up part of the pattern, which I'm sure is available on YouTube), then switch and do the same on the other side. Next, the handler turns this into asking for counter SI up the rail several steps, LY the horse away from the rail a little bit, and continue to use the bend to turn towards the rail and change direction - the handler changes sides so they're back between horse and rail at this point, and repeats in the other direction. Once it's good on the ground, you can take this to the saddle. It's normally done with a whip, but with a more reactive horse, I'm thinking you could just use a hand behind the girth to ask the horse to step away and bend the body. That should start to habituate him to accept the leg more calmly as well.

He's also added just some simple touching the horse all over the neck and sides with the palms of the hands (no gloves) to check for tight muscles and skin, and looking for those to relax before continuing with work or trying to ride. Coincidentally, I've been doing the same with my mare for a couple months already, and it seems to put her in a less braced mindset before work.

[khall]

SF this stepping over is a big part of my daily work with all of my horses. I also incorporate the moving the front end around the HQs. I start in hand and continue this in hand before each ride but also will do this US. Mark called it advance the haunch advance the front end. The Valenca’s tighten it up using it on 10 m circles. Very beneficial to the flexibility of the horse.

[StraightForward]

Khall, a couple days of this and Annabelle's shoulder-in has improved a ton. I'm getting more out of his new videos where he's instructing someone who is making a lot of mistakes vs. Tristan doing the demos when he's done it all a thousand times before. I should re-watch Mark's videos too, thanks for mentioning the similarities.

[Chancellor]

I know nothing of gaited horses, but I've been watching some new videos on Tristan Tucker's site and incorporating some of it in my work with Tesla. She tends more to brace against the leg, so I'm doing it to loosen the ribcage, but relaxation is relaxation.

Anyway, it starts with the forward bending part of his "pattern" which is basically, when done from the ground, just the horse stepping the outside shoulder out, bringing the neck softly in, and stepping the inside hind nicely under the body (he seems to be going away from the backing up part of the pattern, which I'm sure is available on YouTube), then switch and do the same on the other side. Next, the handler turns this into asking for counter SI up the rail several steps, LY the horse away from the rail a little bit, and continue to use the bend to turn towards the rail and change direction - the handler changes sides so they're back between horse and rail at this point, and repeats in the other direction. Once it's good on the ground, you can take this to the saddle. It's normally done with a whip, but with a more reactive horse, I'm thinking you could just use a hand behind the girth to ask the horse to step away and bend the body. That should start to habituate him to accept the leg more calmly as well.

He's also added just some simple touching the horse all over the neck and sides with the palms of the hands (no gloves) to check for tight muscles and skin, and looking for those to relax before continuing with work or trying to ride. Coincidentally, I've been doing the same with my mare for a couple months already, and it seems to put her in a less braced mindset before work.

I will have to look into that too. I have another two students' horses who brace against the leg.

Meanwhile, Chisamba, I used the ideas you gave me and it worked well with Pincel. So THANKS!