I rold you so ..

[Chisamba]

We seem to have been ignoring the drama associated with videos released of rollkur lunging and bungee cord training.

I have long long expressed the opinion that bungee cords were used to enhance front leg action in certain dutch horses. Interesting that it's finally been caught on video albeit in the USA.

It is saddening. The last two clinicians have warned me about polo wraps which I think is ridiculous, and almost any use of the whip and now I see why. The a$$holes are ruining it for the regular riders.

[Tanga]

It's everywhere, so I haven't been jumping in. Those horrendous videos explain a lot of what we see in the "top" horses. I'm sure most are not abused to that degree, but the fact that we see SO many "top horses" doing the leg snapping, double tapping "piaffe and passage" without actual sitting, and big flinging front legs with no overtrack behind says lot. The problem is, these horses are winning, so nothing is going to change unless that changes.

[Quelah]

Chisamba what's the caution about polos for?

If this is re the CP videos, I'm shocked not shocked that people are shocked. When I was still hauling regularly, I picked a horse up that had been training with CP and had been flown out to CA. I remember thinking oh yikes, how fried is this horse going to be because there was a big hubbub at the time and that was *at least* 7 years ago.

[blob]

I'm sure most are abused to that degree

Do you mean that you're sure most are NOT abused to that degree? I doubt CP is the only one, but I certainly believe most top riders are NOT doing anything to that degree.

I think a lot of the leg flinging is bred, not trained. A lot of the modern dressage bred youngsters naturally have so much shoulder freedom and suspension that they can do something that very closely resembles passage and extended trot without having to have all the building blocks in place.

[Chisamba]

Chisamba what's the caution about polos for?

The Netherlands have banned polo wraps on competition grounds on the basis of a study that claims they heat the leg to a potentially damaging level. It is assumed the FEI will follow suit.

IMHO it's a dumb pretense of caring for the horse while allowing their to riders to practice abusive training methods, but that is just my opinion.

[Moutaineer]

Yeah, we can ban polo wraps but still think using a running W as a training device is A-OK?

I love dressage. I still believe that the vast majority of participants do remember and respect why they got into it in the first place--the love of the horse.

The governing bodies just suck. The FEI makes Fifa look like a church picnic. Its embarassing.

In some ways, I hope we do get tossed out of the Olympics.

[Tanga]

Well https://www.thehorseofdelawarevalley.co ... orse-abuse

[PaulaO]

I refuse to watch the videos. I skimmed the thread on ToB but over 500 posts is too much. I’m glad these abusers are getting busted. But how many more are there?

[Moutaineer]

And here we go again.

I'm so disappointed.

[Chisamba]

Yes. It is disappointing. Mountaineer!

[Tanga]

I listened to someone who was talking about this this morning. We've all done bad things. We've all done things we regret. We can all do better. we could all be called out as abusers if videoed at the wrong moment. As much as it is so easy to jump on this as abuse, I think it's a an "easy" distraction. I've been posting for years all over the pages about these horses being backed too young and pushed too hard and having 8 and 9 and 10 year olds in the Olympics, let alone at GP, is not about training and nothing is correct. (And KYRA KYRKLUND replied to me, saying Matador would have never won the Olympics if there was rule they had to be 11 or 12 because he was 10, so basically saying it was fine.) I haven't been happy with CD and cranked in pushed 5 and 6 year olds for awhile. I don't like IW and the fact that almost all of her horses have dropped backs in P/P, and Wendy is CLEARLY a product of Parra type training with her hind legs flung far underneath her without sitting and the swinging double tapping of her front legs which the FEI rulebook says clearly is not more than a 5. It is easy to agree and say whipping a horse with a lunge whip is horrendous, even though it is a lot harder to hurt them than with a driving or short whip. And it is really hard to explain the abuse that is causing much more damage with starting and pushing horses so young and cranking them in and glorifying young horses classes and "talented" horse at 9 in the Olympics. (I said when Valegro won the Olympics he was not strong and fit enough at 9 and was POUNDED on.)

Sigh. I know this is at least a safe space to say this.

[StraightForward]

Yeah Tanga, I was thinking about it this morning because the question came up on ToB about whether the demands for competitive GP are unattainable without abusive training. Not that I'm anywhere near that level, but it does seem that this expectation that a horse should be competing GP at 9 piles on dangerous pressures.

[zevida]

Yeah Tanga, I was thinking about it this morning because the question came up on ToB about whether the demands for competitive GP are unattainable without abusive training.

I wondered this same thing myself. Essentially the bar keeps getting raised to a certain type and most horses are never going to be able to match that naturally so in order to try to be competitive you have to resort to more and more extreme means to get to that level of engagement and activity.

[Moutaineer]

This has been the conclusion I have reached as well.

The difference between so called "Top Sport" and what the rest of us do is just so glaring nowadays.

There's a difference between using the horse as a piece of sports equipment and actually being in this because you love horses.

We used to jokingly say "well I'm not planning to go to the Olympics" as an excuse to take a day off. Now its a reason not to overface your horse.

I happen to be in a barn where some truly fancy upper level horses have landed in the last couple of years. Some of international caliber. They hit the jackpot here as their current owners and trainers treat them with great care and respect, because that's who we are as a barn. But each and every one of those upper level horses got there somehow and carries the physical and mental baggage for doing so.

To an outside observer, these horses are stunning movers who can do it all and aren't we lucky/spoiled to have them. But in reality, life is spent trying to solve physical and mental problems in horses that were often neurologically challenged to start with, and were pushed too hard and too young to do things that were on the very outer edge of their capabilities.