flying change plan

[blob]

I know we've had a lot of discussion and even threads specifically on flying changes. But since we were most recently in robust conversation about it, many of you have put changes on your horses.

Once regionals is over, my plan is to start the work with RP. But wanted to get thoughts from others on what kind of exercises/setups/etc you found most helpful for introducing the idea. He is so different than MM that what I did with her and what I needed to do with her doesn't necessarily apply here. Part of making a plan is for me to set us both up for success so i that I don't get impatient or fall into flying change angst and as a result give him anxiety. So, would love to break things down easily for him AND me.

Things he can do: simple changes, canter half-pass, counter canter (I haven't drilled a lot of this, but he will pick up whatever lead I ask and can maintain a short side in counter canter), canter 8-10 meter circles.

Things that don't work for him/considerations: no poles or jumping. Goal will be keeping him calm rather than getting him amped up (which is what MM needed). He is more likely to fall with his shoulder on a circle than fall out. He likes repetition and predictability.

[Tanga]

I have not really been riding, but my leasor is trying to work on flying changes, and I let her ride both girls. They are both very willing to do them for her IF she asks correctly.

Changes are something you want to do right the first time because it's a real bugger to try to fix them. I would start with simple changes on a straight line, really working on making sure you're coming into the walk already on the new outside rein, but straight and supple off the new inside, thinking almost checking back into the new outside hind (weight to new outside hip, thinking inside hip up) and "rearing" into the new lead. Get the feel of this, and when you get that, slip in a flying change when it feels right. I was doing the cc with my leasor until she felt balanced and then changing, but she kept wanting to lean forward to much and pull on the inside rein, which got them both late behind. When I switched to this and emphasized STRAIGHT in the neck and up, she got clean changes on both mares.

But, you can also prepare for the feel with the cc and changing the flexion from inside to out and back, really working on the balance to the outside rein, whichever that is, without overflexing the neck, which I think becomes a big issue, and then you lose that new inside hind and the change is late. Also always go back to the collection and up feeling, whether it's through forward and back in the canter, canter walk canter, canter backup canter, etc. Don't ask for the change if you don't feel the supple connection, esp. on the inside rein but an essentially straight neck (just see the corner of that eye.)

[blob]

thanks, Tanga. I've done the simple changes on straight line and then slipping in the change with past horses. But he is so sensitive and naturally hotter, that I am worried this will get him too hot. I can probably try it, but getting him to anticipate it might result in him coming unglued, rather than the desired path forward. I tend not to do too many simple changes in a row for this reason.

But helpful to make sure I'm thinking about changing balance and keeping supple connection.

[Tanga]

Hmm. I would say both of mine are very sensitive and can get hot. Maybe go into it thinking I'll walk for 3 or 20 steps, I'll halt, I'll back up, or I'll just change, focusing on the correct aides. One of the things I've also added that helps a lot is verbal signals. "Aaaaaand" is w're going to do a transition, and they know walk, trot, canter, go!, etc. So when asking, adding the verbal seems to really reduce the anxiety from anticipating. Quinn gets super happy when she knows what is going to happen, and Quilla doesn't do the stop and stiffen stuff because she knows where we're going. Also, the whistle and you get a treat has helped immensely, so when they start to get nervous, I give the treat sound and sometimes they get a treat, but it always distracts and relaxes them no matter what I am doing.

[StraightForward]

Thanks for starting this thread, Blob. I will be following along and starting on the path to changes in the near future as well. I did learn that T goes into fire breathing dragon mode (FBDM) pretty quickly, when I asked for changes out of CC a few weeks ago. So far we've been just working on changing leads over a low jump, which I think mostly is helpful for me to organize my aids and get the feeling, without unleashing FBDM.

[blob]

SF, I'll be interested to see how things go with T.

I think in theory I don't mind riding a horse that is FBDM. Issue with RP, is that when he gets hot, he gets anxious and panicked. And so quickly hotness goes from 'i'm fired up' to 'i'm in a blind panic and don't know where my legs are and have lost purity of gait and am bolting out of fear'. So.... I really need to reduce the panic.

RP knows his voice commands from lunging. So i can try to see if that will prevent panic. But I do think ultimately w-c-w-c-w and then slip in will not be the best exercise for him, so hoping to plan out some other options to try.

[exvet]

Exercises that have helped Junior the most have focused on quickening his hind legs (a true challenge) and maintaining suppleness through all three pieces of the body (shoulders, mid or barrel, and hind end). I love Chisamba's recommendation of trot-counter canter transitions on the 20 m circle. I have also found that if I count the number of canter strides and trot strides choosing a specific number of each I am better at keeping my aids crisp and expectations spot on so that we get really good transitions. In the a similar vein has been her suggestion of walk with haunches in on a 20 meter circle to canter depart and only cantering 4 or so strides, back to walk, rinse and repeat. I also like doing exercises that supple the shoulders and supple the barrel/hind end - half passes to side pass whether the half pass is in trot or canter but the side pass is always in walk and truly side ways. Canter leg yields (helps loosen the back and pelvis) and counter canter leg yields which really has helped Junior's shoulder reach. I have decided/discovered that part of the issue with Junior's coordination isn't just that he needs to be quicker with his hind end but he also must be quicker with lifting his fore hand so that he can get out of his own way. Honestly what has also helped has been doing tempis once I addressed all the other pieces but my tempis are done out in a field or on a trail going at break neck speed. I also will gallop (literally gallop him) to open up his fore hand longitudinally and go back and forth with changing the size/length of his canter stride before doing the changes. I have also found that by working on passage and piaffe Junior's understanding of engaging AND lifting is possible both front and back. Junior has probably sent home the message more loudly than the others that the progress in dressage is not linear. Depending on what the horse find's easier or more comfortable will often dictate how you present the pieces of a movement or exercise. Oh I almost forgot another exercise that has helped - walk pirouette to canter pirouette. This exercise of course requires quite a bit of strength and engagement, something that is easier and more automatic for Junior and has been for a long time. I had to realize that and realize it's the lift and forward of the front and back half of his body that I needed to help him connect the dots on so I only go back to use this tool occasionally, more to check myself and his balance really.

Now back to the truth of the matter - I must be absolutely sure that my body is straight, that my hips are open and not blocking, my hands aren't blocking and that I'm all over relatively loose and moving my seat in a way that is controlling the placement of the hind legs, timing of the hind legs and sitting in such a way that insures Junior can lift up through the thoracic sling. He has so little real estate that if I'm not correctly balanced and using my seat to help him we ain't flying anywhere.

Edited to add: No tension anywhere in my body or his................truly a very difficult task for us both because we're both determined overachievers and believe our compact muscle can 'muscle' us through anything.........helps in survival but not so much with the upper level movements.

[khall]

Joplin has a green change on her. She finds them pretty easy to do.

Transitions. Lots of them. All over the arena. I think trot canter trot are just as good as simple changes.

Lateral work in canter. SF HI renvere HP and even LY in canter to help get them upright in their shoulders. When doing my transitions I stay off the rail. You can ask for a change during the transitions just to see what you’ve got.

Tear drop good way to ask. Out if HP. CC on big circle to true canter. Renvere straight change.

Biggest issue is canter quality. Find out if changes improve the quality of the canter. They do for Joplin. Or if it gets RP tense and tight.

Keep your seat ask as big as you need to but as little as you can.

Good luck with them!

[Flight]

Last year I had some lessons with a guy from Portugal. It might have been the language thing (although his English was very good) but he had really simple aids and positioning for teaching and fixing flying changes.
It did help that he was a very good rider and very solid in his position!

For example, canter on left rein. Come around short end and across short diagonal. Use right rein and right leg to leg yield to the left (keep them fairly straight, don't throw away left rein) as you near the wall pull the left rein and bump with your left leg and go to the right along the wall. Keeping the flexion to the left. If they've changed they'll have some counter bend and you gently straighten them.
If they dont change, hold the counter canter, have a second go at the corner. If they don't change, don't panic. Hold the CC around the short end and back across the diagonal to true canter and have another go.

He got all horses to change, including a newly started one. I think that was showing off, he put the horse off balance so it had no choice. But it sorted the ones that didn't change, or changed late behind.

I've got some vid that i can send you (but not share here, it's of other riders) to demonstrate it. One was a firey mare who did get hot.

[blob]

Flight, i would love to see videos.

Khall, i'm fairly certain that changes will be neutral for his canter quality UNLESS he gets anxious, then it will tank the canter. So, my primary goal in finding an exercise that works for him is not letting him get anxious, which means I will have to us exercises that are not so focused on transitions--that will get him anxious, tight, and we'll lose quality.

Exvet, those exercises are helpful. I will play with them. I think finding way sto get his forehand out of the way will be especially useful because in the past when i just 'asked for a change, just to see what he did'-- he would change behind but not in front. So I think getting hind end quick and aligned will be less of an issue with him than it was with MM, but i will need to get him to follow through with is whole body

[Tanga]

Blob, have a little snippet they may help. I was working with my leasor on Quilla trying to get her to ride bend and a circle without overbending the neck and doing the turn with the outside rein. She is getting the changes, but has had a lot of trouble. Initially, she couldn't even get Q to canter because she is confused by the signals. Now she can get changes, but if she doesn't keep Q straight, she always changes late behind. So I was working on getting her to do a small circle with the outside rein to understand the straightness of bend. At the beginning she is changing directions and does lovely, straight, clean change because we've been working so much on keeping the outside rein to keep straightness, while suppling the inside for slight flexion for the bend. Later on the circle, you can see her right leg likes to slide back, so even though she's on a small circle, Q is read to change. Thought this might be useful.
https://youtu.be/gu12TAa3kC0

I realize in watching this while not videoing, Q is still changing in front first because she is being lazy and needs to ask more with new outside leg, but you get the idea!

[Flight]

Tanga, her leg is sliding back because her bum is sliding off to the outside. Get her to bring her outside seatbone close to the middle of the saddle.
If she collapses her upper body more trying to do this, get her to think about pushing her thumb into her hip socket and pushing her hips over so her bum crack is in the middle of the saddle.

Nice change at the start!

Screen Shot 2024-09-21 at 9.07.22 am.jpg (38.18 KiB) Viewed 13016 times

[Tanga]

Flight, yes, this is a problem she has had for a long time, so we're on six months trying to correct it. This is where her body wants to go if she's not right on it and I'm not all over her reminding her. I am trying to get her to get the feeling of putting weight on the outside seatbone but stay up and balanced. And yes, it's been a bear to try to get esp. that right hand back at her side and not go forward all of the time. It helps her to think of putting her thumbs out. This step was mostly focused on her keeping Q straight on the outside rein to bend. Next time, get the butt in the middle! At that moment she would have just gotten a pirouette if her butt were over.

Pretty much every time I work with her she tells me she can't think of all of that at once, and it's a lot, and I say I know. Despite having had lessons and riding for awhile, no one has ever corrected her seat or hands or explained what to do with her body. Back and forth, back and forth. But you can see how sitting straight at the beginning as there, so it's a start. I will tell her you said that about the thumb so now she thinks she has more people watching! I'll text her this and let her know. This might be a very useful visual for her to help with that errant right leg. I'm always trying to find new ways to explain to figure out what works for her brain. What works for me may not work for her.

She says "I’m grateful for the opportunity and the feedback!!"

[Flight]

Sorry I don't usually like giving advice not requested for. However, that bum slide is something that happens to me and those 2 things have helped me stay in the middle.
I'm teaching some new people at work and it's all very new to them, and I'm quite surprised at how many times I've had to repeat stuff and go over and they still forget stuff when a lot is going on. I shouldn't be surprised because horse riding is similar - there is so much happening at once - so much to process!

[StraightForward]

I shouldn't be surprised because horse riding is similar - there is so much happening at once - so much to process!

That's kind of what I told my dad when he asked why I still take lessons. It's helpful to have a second brain because you're trying to control two bodies.

We did get an accidental FC cruising into the longside in CC this morning. It seemed to be clean, and L to R, which I expect to be the harder side. We'll see what happens when I actually ask and end up mucking it up. At least I'll know the horse is probably not the problem.

[exvet]

We did get an accidental FC cruising into the longside in CC this morning. It seemed to be clean, and L to R, which I expect to be the harder side. We'll see what happens when I actually ask and end up mucking it up. At least I'll know the horse is probably not the problem.

Not saying it was Junior's 'fault' in terms of our flying change nightmare but I will point out that in the beginning we did get clean flying changes. I was always taught not to ever reprimand a horse or punish a horse who attempted a flying change because I'd probably get problems like bolting through the change or bucking through the change yada yada......................so when Junior figured out that he knew a way to go from one lead to the other without having to make the effort to 'fly' I simply didn't really know what to do. It wasn't until I started taking lessons with Molly that I found out the only way to make Junior realize or understand that I really really REALLY wanted and intended a change in the air and not on the ground and yes even if it wasn't as energy efficient.....was to communicate clearly with him that the skip a change was NOT what I wanted EVER. There have been many aborted changes, many skip a change OMG! she's going to kill me, okay, okay, okay here I'll jump and jump and jump.....I guess you get the picture. It was my failing to ever allow him to get the idea that the skip a change was okay but energy efficient ponies that actually don't like to jump are a conundrum all their own. I"m happy to report that all of Junior's flying changes were clean and in the air this morning.

[blob]

Thanks, Tanga, the video and exercise is helpful. I think will be esp so once i need to improve the changes on a horse that sort of understands that base idea.

Today was day 1 of playing with changes and prep.

warm-up we did a lot of moving hindquarters and moving shoulders in w-t-c. And this work made it clear that moving shoulders right (to the outside) when tracking left is the hardest isolation for us.

Then I did a variation on the Exvet/Chisamba exercise of haunches in at walk to CC. Instead of on a circle, I did HI in every corner and the CC between the corners.

I then wanted to see how he responded if I set him up with an exercise for a change. I didn't want to drill anything esp at this stage, so I capped myself at 5 attempts total. I started by trying to do the exercise Flight recommended from the rider she watched. I did it once but felt immediately that I needed to get more of a LY than I was getting on a short diagonal. It resulted in a change in front and breaking behind, I just let him come to a trot and didn't make anything of it (attempt 1: LF-Rt)

attempt 2 (Lf-Rt): I adapted the exercise to instead of the diagonal, coming down centerline and LYing over. This felt like better prep, but ultimately got mostly the result.

attempt 3 (lf-Rt): adapted again, this time, I picked up CC on quarter line from walk, LYed over, and acted like i was now going to zig-zag yield the other way. This resulted in a change of sorts. I didn't have camera or a ground person, so I don't know exactly what happened, but felt like he got his hind legs a bit discombobulated in an effort to change all legs together. But no cross cantering steps were taken and no breaking happened. I rewarded the effort. And felt that this was enough on this direction. I didn't want to drill him or let him get frustrated and this felt like a clear effort of him understanding and TRYING to fulfill the assignment.

attempt 4 (Rt-lf): figured I would do just one more on this direction with the same set up as attempt 3. He did a little buck behind into the change. Again, don't know if it was truly clean clean given there was funkiness under me, but no cross cantering and no breaking, and on my aids. So again, felt like an effort to do what was asked.


It felt like a successful day one. We'll stay away from changes for a couple rides and then maybe this weekend, I can get someone to video me doing the exact same exercise so I can see.

[khall]

I haven’t touched on changes since July. Just didn’t have time to because of mom. So Cedar clinic this weekend and one lesson we worked on changes. Joplin was getting all excited and was throwing not good changes all around kind of bulling through the aids a bit. I found it a bit amusing and Cedar walked me through getting them on the aids. I need to hold the inside shoulder with my inside leg keep her a bit more contained via rein aids and think HI in new bend during change. Works very well R to L. Harder L to R to move the R shoulder L. Had a couple of closer to clean L to R but not fully clean. So have our homework.

This is the clean change R to L to counter lead. Joplin is keen but doesn’t get tight.

https://youtube.com/shorts/KccuMAJEYeI?feature=shared

[blob]

That's a lovely change, Khall!

I know a trainer who always recommends teaching and schooling changes true lead to CC because the horse is less likely to anticipate or fall in with inside shoulder and end up late.

[Tanga]

Flight, thank you for the idea. That day we were working on keeping the outside rein. But your phrasing of keeping the arms back to support the torso and keep it straight really helped her. One of the hardest things has been to get her to stop putting her right arm forward. That and dropping the stirrups, or lightening the toes to make sure she isn't sliding one way or another really got her straighter. And yes, as Kyra Kyrlund says, you need to repeat something 5,000 times before it becomes a habit.

blob--I think you are doing it right by not doing it the same way every time. When you do that, they anticipate and you don't real go for the feeling. You always have to go for the feeling of their body being in the right position to do it.

Sort of a good thing, I am still exhausted most of the time and barely able to ride, but when I do and try my one tempis, I am getting them relaxed and clean on both girls. I think I am just so weak that I don't have the energy to get tense or lean forward at all.

[blob]

Thanks, Tanga. I think part of it for me is also figuring out what different things set him up best and not trying to drill what might be a GREAT exercise generally speaking, but maybe not best for him.

I broke my own plan because the rest of the week is looking to be a washout from hurricane Helene--rain Wed-Fri and then i'm guessing much too wet on Saturday for anything. So, today during our ride I went ahead and asked for some changes. I tried twice RT to LF--first he changed infront, not behind until about 3-4 strides later. The second time he did a funky skip change behind, but I still rewarded and let that be because attempt was clearly there to get it right. Then I went LF to RT and on first ask he gave me what felt like a truly clean change, so that was it for changes.

After two days in a row, i will probably need to spend some time in canter doing nothing that exciting, so he doesn't get tense and tight and hoppy.

[StraightForward]

Tesla was a little fired up today since her buddies were turned out just as I was tacking up. Usually I can use that for good and not evil. With some of the lateral suppling we worked on in our last lessons, she got loosened up and focused, so we ended up getting some really good feeling in the canter. I did HP to a volte, then rode out towards the fence, leg-yield away from the new lead, change the bend and voila, a change each way. I am pretty sure she was late on the L/R, but she got herself sorted out and didn't switch to FBDM, so I was quite happy!

I think for now I'll stick with the approach of just trying them with the moment presents itself, but not focus on changes. It does make me optimistic that we might be able to take a crack at third next year though!

[Chisamba]

I think an important think for me to learn was that tempo before and after the change wherever successful or not , has to be the same. So not allow yourself or the horse to think it's okay to go flinging itself forward in a hurry be cause it was asked to change.

The other mistake I made was with bend. I realize the changing the bend should be possible without the flying change or else the zig zags become problematic.

What I mean by that is if I am cantering and I wish to change bend through the neck , the horse should not anticipate the change but should wait for the leg. This gives you a tool to manage straightness, the shoulders and uphill before the change is asked for.

My first horses learned changes easy easy and I thought I was good at it but they just hand natural talent. Subsequently I've had to review and improve my skills at training dramatically

[Ponichiwa]

Boy does that change of bend comment resonate, Chisamba! Queso and I showed our first test with multiple changes (not yet tempi but 3 on a line) and, um. Changes everywhere. So yeah looks like we need to revisit being able to change flexion and bend on a straight line without legs going every which way.

Dressage is certainly nonlinear, and I feel changes are especially so. You get single changes, lose counter canter. Recover counter canter, changes get sticky or unreliable. Clean up single changes and start on multiples, and prepare to start the whole rigamarole over again. I do love them though.

[StraightForward]

Dressage is certainly nonlinear, and I feel changes are especially so. You get single changes, lose counter canter. Recover counter canter, changes get sticky or unreliable. Clean up single changes and start on multiples, and prepare to start the whole rigamarole over again. I do love them though.

Ha. Yeah. We are barely starting, but I was trying to get T loosened up engaged with some canter SI today and she popped a clean L/R change in front of the clinician. He said, oh, she must be a third level horse. Well, not quite, and I couldn't produce that if you asked. I know with her we are probably opening Pandora's box of interesting maneuvers.

[exvet]

Dressage is certainly nonlinear, and I feel changes are especially so. You get single changes, lose counter canter. Recover counter canter, changes get sticky or unreliable. Clean up single changes and start on multiples, and prepare to start the whole rigamarole over again. I do love them though.

Ha. Yeah. We are barely starting, but I was trying to get T loosened up engaged with some canter SI today and she popped a clean L/R change in front of the clinician. He said, oh, she must be a third level horse. Well, not quite, and I couldn't produce that if you asked. I know with her we are probably opening Pandora's box of interesting maneuvers.

I'm nodding so hard I almost fell out of my chair!

No kidding dressage isn't linear. My SO and I went out for a long trail ride yesterday. Much of the footing is decomposed granite which is divine to canter on so Junior and I were taking advantage of the natural 'forward' for practicing tempis on the way home. He's quite able to do them without hesitation so much nicer quality to the canter and the changes themselves with everything just flowing. I find riding shoulder in to shoulder in or the idea of that at least helps me keep Junior straight and honest in the connection while cantering and asking for (and getting) changes. So that my mind (and then body) doesn't cause the hesitation I simply think of canter, canter, canter as if I'm riding to a fence counting my strides and finding my spots. Molly warned me a long time ago when I was desperate to just get a clean change not to train him to change on the bend or with the rein because of course I was able to 'fake' it that way. She was dead on right. I realized that it wasn't the correct way to teach them but again I was desperate and I had a pony that could easily get all the trot work done for the PSG and even could sit and complete decent half pirouettes. I'm so glad I listened to her and persevered. As a result though we have our challenges, he doesn't swing, head wag or bounce around side to side as he negotiates the changes down a line. Of course I have ended up with a pony that isn't too shabby at the piaffe, is understanding passage and probably could pull off a full canter pirouette if it weren't that I don't want to put anymore pressure on him. Could we pull off an I-1 or I-2?..........well we're pretty darn close but it's taken almost 4 years of hard work to get decent flying changes. He did them clean and correct in the beginning and then learned the 'cheat' way to get from one lead to the other. Leave to a pony. It's been a process realizing what he needs and what I need to do to help him understand how to use his body and not just hunker down to get through the ride.

[blob]

Sigh, yes. I ended up with feeling like we were just going to crack it after such successful few attempts of moving in the right direction and since then we have fallen apart. Now he is getting a bit wild and as a result we are getting all kind of variations of bad changes---not changing behind, skip change, leaping wildly and flinging legs, etc. And I haven't had a true clean one in a bit. So I hear you very much on it not being linear. I am glad I am starting before we are fully third level ready so I do not feel the over eager anxiety I did with MM.

I am feeling good about my decision to teach them as a change from cc to true lead on the longside, not as a change of direction. Because I think that will keep CC learning and changes learning together and help it stay straight.

the whole keeping the rhythm the same before and after will prove challenging as he kind of wants to zoom around after.

[khall]

I’ve gotten so lucky with Joplin and changes. They make sense to her and while I do need to work on L to R she quite happily changes with no drama at all. I’ve even done multiple changes on straight line no issues. Most of mine have accepted changes fairly well except Rip. As good as his canter was it just didn’t make sense to him. I do have to go back and reinforce cc on Joplin but as long as I am clear with my aids she’s good. My biggest issue is she can be hard to sit the canter it’s so big. That’s my work on issue.

Good luck blob. I’m glad RP came around with his canter!

SF I remember the FC video you had of T she can most definitely do them. It is great fun to play with them for sure.