Deneb:

[Chisamba]

Some of you may remember my pretty little Deneb. She was the lucky survivor of the barn fire, because i brought her home just days before it occurred. I took it as a sign that she was going to be my future star.

I put this in training because I hope to make it a training blog, not just a anecdotal story.

Only she wasn't. I found her exceptionally reactive, and not always very high in the self preservation instinct. I often said so long as a horse has self preservation you are safe, all you have to do is stick with them, and since they will not hurt themself, they will not hurt you. Well, little Deneb was not inclined to preserve herself. Early on in her training, i had her at home and was hacking quietly around the pasture. She startled, ran into the fence, and flipped over it. I decided that perhaps working her at home was not the best idea, since the facilities here are somewhat wide open and not conducive to focus. So I brought her to the barn. Well, on three separate occasions, she bolted, and ran full tilt into the wall of the indoor. What tremendously frightening things happened to cause this? well on one occasion and horse walked past the open door, on another, she kicked up dirt and it hit the wall, and on the third, a dog, who ran in and out of the indoor constantly, ran into the indoor.

I admit freely that this rattled me. i found myself saying to her, okay, today's goal is not to die, as i got on. I did many things to help her overcome her fear. i tacked her up and let her stand next to me for hours as i taught. I exposed her to things in slow steps to desensitize her. i worked on keeping her on the aids and in focus constantly. and then one day i decided both of us were hating it, just hating it, and i brought her home, and threw her out, and retired her, at the grand young age of five.

from time to time, I would work with her at home, and then suddenly she began to show a modicum of sense. her reactions were more short lived, she no longer took out fences, broke down sheds, or any of those dramatically frightening things. so i started riding her. nothing big, a little hack in the pasture, a bit of work in the round pen, testing the waters. Now circumstances have changed at home, we may have to move, and if we do, it will be to a much smaller place. No more room for retirees.

So, things progressed somewhat reassuringly, so i brought her to the barn at the beginning of March. she has not killed me yet. she is still reactive, but , so far at least, no hitting the wall, no flipping over fences, so i thought i would keep a Deneb training log here, to keep track of my progress.

[Chisamba]

this is a photo update too, to keep track

[Chisamba]

This is Deneb this month, much taller and more filled out, she how she takes up my whole leg.

[orono]

Sounds like she needed time to grow up and settle down. Hopefully her training continues to progress smoothly from now on!

[demi]

She is an attractive young mare. She's in good hands with you, Chisamba, and I hope we see goods things to come!

She also sounds like a big challenge so please be careful that you don't get hurt.

[Chisamba]

3/25

Deneb can have days where she is quite relaxed about grooming and tracking up. Today was not that day, giving me a early warning that she was feeling anxious. Experience has shown me that getting to work quicker is better in these circumstances. She manages to maintain her composite through mounting, and I s pleased with her ability to come back to me when distracted. We had a couple of moments of ultra high neck.

I have worked as hard as I can to teach her that friendly contact in the outside rein is where she should go for confidence. My ultimate goal when she startles is to get her into the outside rein and relaxing through. After five minutes of forward trot, transitions and circles, she began to work consistently.

Then her best friend, I mean the horse she stands with all day, came to the fence, where he was visible from the indoor. She spooked, threw her head in the air and bolted. Seriously, bolting from her own best friend, are you kidding me.

On the positive, she did not run into anything, and I was able to put her in a circle by the time we got to E, ( she spooked at C) put her in a downward transition and walked back to C. I do not usually do that, most of the time after a spin I do not show the horse the thing it spooked at, I try to go back to work on the aids, but this time I just went with my instincts. She walked to the open door as though she was going to die. I halted her, she looked at the horse on the other side of the fence, gradually her heart could no longer be felt drumming my calves, and then we went back to work.

I told her she was the most stupid most ridiculous piece of walking dog meat ever. However I managed to make it sound like a compliment, which had my barn friends laughing.

Another day in there life of a reactive horse. Lol. I have more to learn. Clearly!

[piedmontfields]

First of all Chisamba, well ridden! I think you were wise to follow your instincts with such a tricky one.

She is quite a striking mare, but your safety is important and don't forget that. I hope she comes around to greater consistency, but as you and I know they don't all do that.

[Chisamba]

First of all Chisamba, well ridden! I think you were wise to follow your instincts with such a tricky one.

She is quite a striking mare, but your safety is important and don't forget that. I hope she comes around to greater consistency, but as you and I know they don't all do that.

I agree, which was my theory when i retired her, not every horse enjoys riding and not every horse comes around, but i honestly do not feel like i am risking my life every time i get on, this time around, perhaps my patience but not my life. When she is nice, she is so very nice, elastic, light footed, willing, "hard working" i know that saying hard working is a bit like talking about horses and work ethic, but she seems to like work, it seems to give her satisfaction, and yes, there is a huge possibility i am being anthropomorphic. last year i was certain she hated it, this year i am not as certain

[Hayburner]

Much credit is due you for continuing to work with her and not give up.

What bred is she?

[Sue B]

My ultra spooky dude, Lad, responded best to always having some rein contact and leg contact, even while cooling out. I called it "hand holding" as in, a little kid who always needs to hold mommy's hand or skirt. While it did not stop the twirls and sudden halt-rb out of canter, it did make them less expressive and less damaging to my body. He ruptured his aorta at age 19 having never outgrown his silliness, but he did become fun to train and was schooling 3rd level at the time of his death. His only real draw back was that showing gave him instant ulcers so I had to stop showing him--clinics were ok with him though so long as he wasn't gone from his pasture for more than a couple days. Oh yeah, he's the one who taught me the importance of always making sure the horse is in front of your legs!

[Chisamba]

Sue B, that is exactly my goal, for the contact to feel like hand holding to her. To establish a degree of confidence and trust in the rider based on the comfortable contact, especially in the outside rein. I also occasionally take a little more bend than traditionally correct, to keep that contact in the outside rein, when she is stiffening or scared of something.

yes of course, and in front of the leg.

when people ask me what to do with a spooky horse, my advice is always to improve the horses acceptance of the aids. improve the consistency and elasticity of the contact.

[Chisamba]

One of the reasons i am keeping a training blog on her is because people so often ask for advice on working with a spooky horse.

[Chisamba]

I had a group jump lesson, so i included Deneb with one of my better adult riders in the lesson, it was a kids lesson, and was only low jumps and cavaletti. first of all Deneb seemed to really enjoy a group lesson, learning in a group with lot of steady eddy children and horses was tremendously beneficial to her.

the second thing i learned is that if the rider is not quite as good as keeping the horse on the aids, Deneb will throw her head very high in the air and grab the reins.

so what i took from that, try to do more rides in groups, and yes, keeping her on the aids is important in managing her very athletic abilities

[cb06]

I am glad to hear she is making some progress. Regardless of her physical age, she sounds mentally young and looks like she still has filling-out to do.
If I remember correctly? you did run through the litany of things to rule out a physical reason (i.e. saddle fit, ulcers, lyme test, back, blah blah, etc. ).

Though I am no expert, and my horse was not a bolter, he was definitely a 'looker' and scooter and a 'head straight-up in air' if you let him (and he was lyme positive...treated and it helped)...in that context, yes, keeping horse on the aids is absolutely key. My horse is built the same as yours (same breed), and the politically incorrect truth is ...to build the topline strength and mental focus, what works is down and round, forget about where the nose is, and just make sure they are working FORWARD, over the back, into the outside rein, every-single-moment. Not a moment....seriously, very precise timing and riding required (no more school kids for now)..but not ONE moment allowed of inverting, bracing, behind-the-leg, aimless walking and looking. It was very mentally hard for ME to learn. Ride every stride, nip the first hint of brace, head-up and keep them between your aids. If you can get 20 minutes of good focused, over-the-back work, pat and quit. Transitions in shoulder-fore are your friend. It is physically and mentally hard work for them if you keep them on the aids, and it is best to get 20 minutes good, correct, consistent work (they should be sweaty and tired!), rather than 45 minutes of mediocre, inconsistent work. ...think of it as teaching them how to mentally focus as much as the physical development.
You can ride up and out, incrementally, when she is mentally and physically more capable.
My 0.02 cents from experience.

[Chisamba]

I have never and would never put a kid on her, I'm not crazy. She was being ridden by one of my best assistants in a kids lesson. For easy repetitive stuff. Look again, I specifically said better adult rider.

Yes keeping her on the aids is important, but relaxing and stretching on a long rein is very important for her to take a brain break, she can get more and more wound up without moments of stretch. There is no "tiring her into relaxation".

[orono]

I find a group of schoolies very calming for nervous horses, I have used it to my advantage on many occasions - settling nervous horses into a new facility. It's good that she enjoyed the company.

[cb06]

Not 'tiring into relaxation' , but short period of mental and physical focus that are just long enough to be challenging without overfacing...

[Chisamba]

" they should be sweaty and tired ".....quoting you.

I will have to look for the source of the story but there was an 80 year old man a renowned dressage trainer who started all of his babies he said it was more important for the best trainer to ride the babies and once they were at a certain level then you could let other Riders ride them. Anyway he used to ride the horses at only a walk for 2 years and at the end of two years only walking he would allow his other Riders to take them on and they were always astonished to find the horses were dressed in all gaits.

My very first job as an assistant trainer at a breeding Farm the owner insisted that I do nothing but work the Young Horses for the first 6 months.

Finally, I have rehabbed horses from soft tissue injury that were on six months of walk.

To my surprise, the rehab horses came back into work at a level higher than when they were injured.

It is my opinion that you do not have to make a horse sweaty and tired to teach them something. Often relaxation, refinement, focus and attention are most thoroughly learned at a slower pace

To get fit, to increase aerobic capacity, yes. To teach. No.

[kande50]

I find a group of schoolies very calming for nervous horses, I have used it to my advantage on many occasions - settling nervous horses into a new facility.

I saw a variation on this when I was at a show one time. The horse was my horse's half brother, who is a few years older, and had been ridden by a variety of experienced riders since he was young. They all subscribed to the "keep the horse on the aids to prevent spooking" school of thought, and in this instance he was being ridden by a young pro in an indoor, prior to doing a test. The indoor was packed during the warmup and he was going around looking great, until it was his turn to do his test, by himself.

It was interesting, because his rider couldn't get him near any of the corners, nor the other end, even though nothing had changed other than that all the other horses had left. But when I pointed that out to the trainer who was making disparaging comments about the horse, he didn't agree with me, even though the only reason he could come up with was because the horse was a jerk. I asked him why he thought the horse was a jerk now but wasn't 10 minutes earlier, and he said something to the effect that's just part of being a jerk.

I've always just avoided the whole issue by bringing someone into the indoor with my horse so that I don't have to spend 10 minutes riding a jerk before my nice calm horse returns.

[Tuddy]

Thank you for posting this, I am having some of the same issues with Tuddy, and it is getting very discouraging. It is nice to know that I am not the only one.

Good Luck, and I will be watching this thread with tons of interest.

PS - the walking dog meat comment was priceless.

[Chisamba]

I find a group of schoolies very calming for nervous horses, I have used it to my advantage on many occasions - settling nervous horses into a new facility.

I saw a variation on this when I was at a show one time. The horse was my horse's half brother, who is a few years older, and had been ridden by a variety of experienced riders since he was young. They all subscribed to the "keep the horse on the aids to prevent spooking" school of thought, and in this instance he was being ridden by a young pro in an indoor, prior to doing a test. The indoor was packed during the warmup and he was going around looking great, until it was his turn to do his test, by himself.

It was interesting, because his rider couldn't get him near any of the corners, nor the other end, even though nothing had changed other than that all the other horses had left. But when I pointed that out to the trainer who was making disparaging comments about the horse, he didn't agree with me, even though the only reason he could come up with was because the horse was a jerk. I asked him why he thought the horse was a jerk now but wasn't 10 minutes earlier, and he said something to the effect that's just part of being a jerk.

I've always just avoided the whole issue by bringing someone into the indoor with my horse so that I don't have to spend 10 minutes riding a jerk before my nice calm horse returns.

Kande, and Orono, on this we three agree. It is something i miss with my young horses, having steady eddies to work with. that is why when i think they are safe enough, i have a good assistant ride them in the steady eddy lessons, the outcome is always positive, the horse always takes security and learns from the actions of those accompanying it, they are herd animals.

[Josette]

It is my opinion that you do not have to make a horse sweaty and tired to teach them something. Often relaxation, refinement, focus and attention are most thoroughly learned at a slower pace

To get fit, to increase aerobic capacity, yes. To teach. No.

Yes - totally agree. Some of my best rides were to keep my guy relaxed and focused. If his mind was spooking or resisting there was no progress.

[Chisamba]

So today was a real challenge for Deneb. Yesterday. April Fool's Day. She was super I had a wonderful ride calm relaxed working really well did some fabulous lateral work.

Today while she was being tacked up a strange horse was brought into the barn and it was screaming and screaming in the stall. She started to get very tense so I finished tacking her as quickly as possible and brought her to the indoor away from the upset horse.

Usually getting to work settled her quicker but on this occasion she was literally trembling. Eyes were wide and she was terrified. Instead of getting on I walked around the indoor two or three times in each Direction. She remained tense but to her credit did not do anything she didn't really put a step wrong. It did take " big girl panties" to mount up. Again to her credit she never spooked or bolted although it did take a good 20 minutes before she began to actually relax and work. The big positive I took from this was despite the fact that I knew she was very fearful and very tense she was able to continue to listen and draw confidence from her Rider.

The combination of a thirty degree drop in temperature, a screaming anxious horse, and high winds did not completely overwhelm her.

I am optimistic about her progress.

[orono]

That is a big improvement, for both of you!! Adorable picture!

[cb06]

Very glad to hear she is doing better!
Here is a timely clip on a similar topic...
https://youtu.be/ToCEFYrN7ss

[Chisamba]

It is clear from both your advice and your video that we are using such disparate methods that Giving each other advice would be like getting driving directions from some one who has stared from a different place and is in a different neighborhood.

I am old enough to know that to get useful directions, I need to ask someone who not only knows where I am going, but also knows where I am. Otherwise I just get more lost or end up further from my goal.

I am sure people familiar with your neighborhood will appreciate your input so thank you.

One thing I am Very sure of, some horses are amenable to experimentation, and others are not. Deneb needs to be in confident and consistent hands, so I need to be comfortable with what I know.

[cb06]

I need to ask someone who not only knows where I am going, but also knows where I am. Otherwise I just get more lost or end up further from my goal.

This is absolutely true and none of us on this board have this knowledge. We only have our OWN experience of what has and has not worked for the horses we have worked with and what works for one, absolutely doesn't work for all. I can only offer what has worked for me with my horses, and give visual example of similar work that in real life has worked for others.

Your journey is your own, and my journey is mine. It is clear our paths are not the same.
Good luck with your nice mare.

[Chisamba]

I would not put Deneb n such a high pressure situation. Even if I had a young horse sane enough, I would not likely have it ready for such an effort at that age. Finally, if I somehow miraculously had a young horse in that context, running it around while hanging on its face would not be my idea of a success. Nor was it even Gal's which is why he moved to work with the more relaxed of the two. He did give two key pieces of advice, post to the trot, and dont hang on the reins
Hanging makes the horse go faster. I agree. He also said, it would be desired for the horse to walk for five minutes but if you cannot walk then work forward with big circles and transitions within the gait.

I feel fairly sure you think you could ride my horses better than me, and it may be true. But the circumstances are that she is mine.

[Chisamba]

Much credit is due you for continuing to work with her and not give up.

What bred is she?

Sorry, she is an American Saddlebred x

[amygdala]

[quote="Chisamba"]I would not put Deneb n such a high pressure situation. Even if I had a young horse sane enough, I would not likely have it ready for such an effort at that age. Finally, if I somehow miraculously had a young horse in that context, running it around while hanging on its face would not be my idea of a success. Nor was it even Gal's which is why he moved to work with the more relaxed of the two. He did give two key pieces of advice, post to the trot, and dont hang on the reins
Hanging makes the horse go faster. I agree. He also said, it would be desired for the horse to walk for five minutes but if you cannot walk then work forward with big circles and transitions within the gait.

i agree, chisamba-- those poor baby horses! over-trained at 4, broken down at 8.......

[demi]

I for one, appreciate what you are doing with Deneb. Thanks for keeping us posted on her progress. No matter what the final outcome, you are giving her a first rate chance to succeed.

[Hayburner]

Thanks for responding as to her breed...

Look forward to reading your training updates, as to what is working and what you have found is not working...

[orono]

The video of the 2 youngsters was interesting. The first horse was very very tense, and I felt a bit bad for the baby being overfaced. Gal did very well but was limited in what could be shown. I liked how he was trying to talk the rider into slower work on a circle, in rising trot (interesting that he mentioned that it's walk would be preferable but not possible in this situation, better to get them busy). The second horse seemed more settled, had more swing in his stride and the rider also seemed more relaxed.

[cb06]

I feel fairly sure you think you could ride my horses better than me, and it may be true. But the circumstances are that she is mine.

I don't feel that at ALL. ...some days I'm lucky to ride my own horse half decent.
I thought Gal had good tips also with some VERY distracted and tense horses, which does not always require a high pressure situation like this to manifest.
I do think for 'some' horses, it is at least worth trying the 'keep them busy' route, asking them to work, focus, for a brief period (again, not overface, but brief correct work) and build from there. Some horse respond to this with better focus and can release nervous energy with controlled physical effort, others response better and relax/release mentally and physically with walking and less active work. It's not right or wrong, just what works for each individual horse.

[lorilu]

Interesting, the two "methods" here. Slow and steady..... vs. "Keep them in front of the leg going fast". While my example here is not about spooky of unfocused horses, it might apply:
My trainer and I have found that some horses respond to the more "German" methods of pushing them forward at all costs and other horses respond better to the slower, more balanced methods with lots of walk work. My horses respond to the latter. I have to be careful about the clinicians I go to - in one case, my trainer rode a horse in a clinic with a very well known clinician, to work of changes - he is a hotter type of horse and gets tense. It took her three weeks to get his mind back, focused on doing a change with the same level of tension as before the clinic. The clinic actually put them backwards in training.
It is probably true with spooking horses as well.\

[Chisamba]

I feel fairly sure you think you could ride my horses better than me, and it may be true. But the circumstances are that she is mine.

I don't feel that at ALL. ...some days I'm lucky to ride my own horse half decent.
I thought Gal had good tips also with some VERY distracted and tense horses, which does not always require a high pressure situation like this to manifest.
I do think for 'some' horses, it is at least worth trying the 'keep them busy' route, asking them to work, focus, for a brief period (again, not overface, but brief correct work) and build from there. Some horse respond to this with better focus and can release nervous energy with controlled physical effort, others response better and relax/release mentally and physically with walking and less active work. It's not right or wrong, just what works for each individual horse.

aah, well, i have gone the go forward and keep them busy route with Deneb, yes, i did try it, and thought it was the way to go. it was, as in the case lorilu described, a giant step back into tension. her flight instinct is so overdeveloped that forward is only a short breath away from hysteria, and is not relaxing to her when she is tense. Now, when she is able to focus and less fearful, then work, keeping busy and focus is very very beneficial.

[piedmontfields]

You know, my mare is a "lighter" version of this. It is easy to end up in tension with too much pushing. Slow, steady and supportive works. Keep us posted.

[Fatcat]

In my experience with some complicated horses, relaxation needs to be there first.

[kande50]

aah, well, i have gone the go forward and keep them busy route with Deneb, yes, i did try it, and thought it was the way to go. it was, as in the case lorilu described, a giant step back into tension. her flight instinct is so overdeveloped that forward is only a short breath away from hysteria, and is not relaxing to her when she is tense. Now, when she is able to focus and less fearful, then work, keeping busy and focus is very very beneficial.

I've tried it often enough, and what I came away with was if the horse is close enough to calm enough then it works just fine, but if he isn't then hang on to your hat, because he'll go along with it until he can't anymore, and then you may find out why it was not such a great idea.

[Chisamba]

It is interesting to consider, and the pieces are falling in place, if the horse is close to relaxation, then work and keeping them busy is an excellent way to restore relaxation, but if they are too wound up and hypervigilant then it can be counter productive. This makes sense to me, i had a friend with a very flighty thoroughbred and she would longe and longe him and he would be dripping wet and shaking and still not relax. thinking back on that horse, and on a few that i have had that were very flight oriented, It seems to fit.

a basically sensible horse that is hot can be settled with work and focus and forward, but if the horse is above a certain level of hysteria, then slow work is more beneficial. I know it works for Deneb and it seems that others have made similar observations with their hypervigilant horses. it really is interesting and helpful to discuss experiences with other horse people

[Josette]

I am in agreement with your observations. Different circumstances when I purchased my guy who had been passed around. Very stressed and uncontrollable strong when ridden in the ring - border line bolter when he became fearful. Brain shut down with fear and ignored the rider. Some where in his past he had bad experiences with aggressive riders. Relaxation and trust had to be our GOALS. It took time but now he is an awesome responsive obedient pony - so much fun to ride! Yes - he will always be on the alert and could still do a spook - but nothing like when we started with him. I am no longer fearful of extreme reactions from him.

[khall]

Something to think about re relaxation and working with the horse. A good friend of mine is a DVM who practices acupuncture and chiro (both large and small animal), her chiro training was based in neurology so she learned a good bit about nervous system and has done more study re nervous system in horses because of her interest in dressage. What her surmise is, that the areas that dressage concentrates on the jaw/poll area and lumbar sacral area when stimulated releases the good endorphins from the parasympathetic system, those systems (the parasympathetic vs the sympathetic which is flight or flight) are found in the jaw/poll area and lumbar sacral area, the sympathetic system in located pretty much where we sit on the horse (no wonder when we tighten up the horse reacts strongly!) the anticlinal location of the spine. So relaxing the jaw has a neurological impact on the horse, activating the lumbar sacral area (i.e. engaging the HQs) stimulates the parasympathetic system, the feel good system. This is a pretty simplified version of one of her lectures (she does lectures on anatomy/neurology of the horse and how it relates to healthy biomechanics of the horse). There is much more re tight nosebands and rollkur why these practices do not make sense for proper development of the horse.

[cb06]

I think it is also important to keep in mind that using work to focus a horse does not equal 'fast' OR exhaustion. I have never been a subscriber to working a horse to exhaustion to achieve any sort of focus, nor do I like letting a horse 'get the bucks out' on the lunge...if I'm attached to the horse in some way, then I dictate the work. period. I grew up with young horses that were well started on the lunge/long-line, and learned voice commands from a young age. This is a VERY helpful skill to teach any horse. It gives you access to a variety of useful work on the lunge or long-lines (for dressage, that would include gradually adjusted side reins of some sort maybe?, depending on your horse, to encourage working correctly, goal is to build the correct muscle groups, engaged hind leg, over the topline without riders weight). Begin with basics, then add complexity...transitions within and between gaits (progressing from walk/halt eventually up to trot/canter or even walk/canter), spiral in/out, down the long side, ground poles/cavalettis, reverse direction in long-lines...not endless little circles at speed. It is a great way to improve focus at a variety of intensities (depending on your horse), and improve correct muscling without a rider on their back.

I will also anthropomorphize for just a minute the difference between quiet focusing vs. physical exertion to focus and relieve stress. When 'we' are stressed/anxious, some people prefer to release this stress with mediation, soft music, controlled breathing, stretching, etc. Other people would rather relieve stress by taking a brisk walk or jog, get a little sweat going, a little out or breath, the blood pumping, not exhaustion, but noticeably breaking a sweat to clear the head and be able to re-focus. Sometimes we use a combination of the two...so, more the one road to Rome, so to speak.

Khall's research reference is very interesting and makes sense.

[Chisamba]

I think it is also important to keep in mind that using work to focus a horse does not equal 'fast' OR exhaustion. I have never been a subscriber to working a horse to exhaustion to achieve any sort of focus, nor do I like letting a horse 'get the bucks out' on the lunge...if I'm attached to the horse in some way, then I dictate the work. period. I grew up with young horses that were well started on the lunge/long-line, and learned voice commands from a young age. This is a VERY helpful skill to teach any horse. It gives you access to a variety of useful work on the lunge or long-lines (for dressage, that would include gradually adjusted side reins of some sort maybe?, depending on your horse, to encourage working correctly, goal is to build the correct muscle groups, engaged hind leg, over the topline without riders weight). Begin with basics, then add complexity...transitions within and between gaits (progressing from walk/halt eventually up to trot/canter or even walk/canter), spiral in/out, down the long side, ground poles/cavalettis, reverse direction in long-lines...not endless little circles at speed. It is a great way to improve focus at a variety of intensities (depending on your horse), and improve correct muscling without a rider on their back.

I will also anthropomorphize for just a minute the difference between quiet focusing vs. physical exertion to focus and relieve stress. When 'we' are stressed/anxious, some people prefer to release this stress with mediation, soft music, controlled breathing, stretching, etc. Other people would rather relieve stress by taking a brisk walk or jog, get a little sweat going, a little out or breath, the blood pumping, not exhaustion, but noticeably breaking a sweat to clear the head and be able to re-focus. Sometimes we use a combination of the two...so, more the one road to Rome, so to speak.

Khall's research reference is very interesting and makes sense.

I completely agree with longe, long line work, and i also completely agree that if i am attatched to the horse in any way, there I dictate the work. If i did not have this very well established with ms Deneb, i would not be able to work her on the longe at the walk when she is upset. There are may on this bb who do not believe in side reins, but having been started with the traditional SRS method, and also really enjoying the stahlecker DVD of in hand work for the young horse, I do fully believe in preparing the young horse to accept weight and understand balance before being ridden.

i also agree, be it anthropomorphic or not, that different methods work for different horses, and that you have to listen to the horse and not to be too arrogant nor to rigid, just very consistent and clear, to find out what works best for a young horse. ( of which i have had the fortune of starting more than a hundred, my son asked me once how many horses i had trained from the beginning and i started naming them, and by the time we got to a hundred we had reached where we were going and i had not reached the end of my list) I have never wanted to be too inflexible and nor have i always been right, hind sight is often a huge learning curve .

I had previously completely given up on Deneb, i had decided that her brain was just not wired for work, and that it was like riding an unsound horse, trying to mould her in to a rideable horse, only the unsoundness was not in her limbs. She sort of told me she was ready to try again, and i believed her.

i hope she meant it

[Chisamba]

I thought you might like to see a small bit of video to share your impressions. This was taken in a busy Arena. I did not edit sound so please forgive my voice.
https://youtu.be/uQSBmjJsoa0

[Anne]

C, thanks for sharing your video. I really like the activity and rhythm of Deneb's trot, and she seems attentive to you. I also really like your steady connection. She looks like a very sensitive type (as you have described), and evidenced by her abrupt transition to walk. Good luck with her, you are a lovely pair.

[Tuddy]

Thanks for sharing! I didn't have the sound on, but she looks like very responsive and attentive.

On another note - swallowtail saddle pads just look amazing on a horse - particularly a bay one.

[khall]

Chisamba, I really like your mare, she is so elegant! ASBs are a favorite breed of mine though I have never owned one myself. They have big hearts and are such triers. Looking for a friend a new horse and a couple of ASBs are on the radar.

The only suggestion I have is the trot to walk transition was very abrupt, can you power her down a bit in the trot before making the transition to smooth it out a bit? That is what I have learned to do to allow my big guy to have the time to keep/use his hind legs rather than abruptly stopping on his front end.

[Chisamba]

It is interesting I looked at a frame by frame on Deneb's transition. I also watched it several times at the slowest speed. I do not see her dropping on the forehand. Transition in one stride hind end first, as I rode it.

Thank you for your perspectives on it.

[demi]

I think she looks good. Especially from what I know about her background, temperament and stage of development. in the vid she is nicely balanced, attentive and working for and with Chisamba. I watched it several times and I didn't think the transition to walk was abrupt. In fact, I thought it was pretty nice for a horse at her stage. Good girls! Good start to this partnership.