In which I'm reminded how much horse shopping sucks!

[Xanthoria]

Casually browsing for sale ads, as one does, I ended up in the following SUPERBLY annoying text conversation with a seller of "Three unbroke/recently started WB babies, incredibly bred, need to sell right away for $5k each due to (terrible incident). Please text me."

See if you can figure out this word puzzle! What are the ages, prices and sexes of the following animals for sale?

2 weeks ago:
Me: Hi, saw your ad - are they still available?
Seller: (sends 6 photos of 5 different horses)
Me: there are 5?
S: I have a couple. a 2016 and a 2015. sorry, life is crazy after terrible incident (blah blah blah unrelated stuff)
S: (another photo of a different horse)
S: (repeats herself) I have a couple. a 2016 and a 2015. sorry, life is crazy after terrible incident (blah blah blah unrelated stuff)
M: So sorry! Where are you located? heights? Started at all? Prices?
S: the chestnut and younger bay are $5k, the older bay $8k. the chestnut and bay were being started when horrible incident happened. they are about 16.1. the younger one has a huge trot. (long rambling story about terrible incident) I will send video.
M: Uh, do you have email? Might be easier Mine is xxx@xxx.com

Three days pass:
M: any luck w video?
M: also, are they registered and if so which registry, and what are their names?

Another day goes by. I call and leave a VM.
M: I just left you a VM. I'd love to know more details! You ave two for sale - or three? Who are each of their sires and dams? Thanks
S: I have two 3yr olds and a coming 2 yo. search MyCrazyName on yourtube for vids (long rambly text about needing a new camera and phone)

I go look, to find 8 videos of about 5 seconds long, some backwards, of various unnamed horses, some videos are backwards or upside down, and some are videos about other animals or her kids.
M: thanks! is this one of them? (link)
S: YES - that is my gorgeous horse who is so amazing (long winded description of her many talents - about 3 paras) She is not for sale. My filly that's turning 2 and chestnut mare are all amazing too - and sound!
M: Pretty mare! I saw a video of a chestnut, and 2 clips of a bay, and a gray - which is which?
S: He is the sire, not inspected
M: Who are HIS sire and dam?
S: there are two full sister bay mares. All his offspring have top level jumping ability! I will find pics of the dams.

At this stage, I THINK what we have is:

2016 Bay filly $5k
2015 Chestnut mare $5k
2015 Bay, mare, $8k (full sister to other bay)
All by gray stallion.

...but on the whole, I have got so little info out of her in 2 weeks that I think time is up and I never want to buy a horse again as long as I live.

[piedmontfields]

Seriously, you tried and she tried. She failed.

Watch for craigslist ads from her and move on. Sorry, but that is how it goes!

[StraightForward]

You are more patient/persistent that I!

I just made it through this, and will not work that hard. Buyers are often accused of being "tire kickers" but I think on the other side of the fence are people who don't really want to sell their horses, but perhaps are being pressured by a spouse, money woes, etc., so put up a vague ad and act cagey so that the horse doesn't actually sell, but they can claim that they're trying.

I inquired about a horse and since she mentioned a good home being important in the ad, I gave her a rundown of what I do with my horses, my experience, and even before/after photos of Annabelle as proof. I asked for a video because said horse was over 5 hour drive away. She did send a video - about 38 seconds of someone holding a cell phone (in portrait mode - why?!?) while simultaneously lunging the horse on a lead rope. I responded that there were some nice steps in there, but could they please get a video of all 3 gaits, at liberty in a paddock would be fine, and also photos of feet and legs before I committed the better part of a weekend to coming over to look. She sent back her husband's phone number and said to call and tell him what I wanted. Nah. If you're not smart enough to figure out what a buyer might want to see in a prospect, the horse is probably a hot mess too.

Another one - I saw a cute blue roan filly on Craigslist. It was probably the camera angle, but she looked taller than the average QH, so I emailed and asked how tall she was. The guy wrote back - "I have no idea, like average size. Just come out and see her." As if the hassle of making an appointment and showing the horse is way easier than walking out the door with a freaking tape measure.

With smart phones, there is just no excuse anymore not to have some decent video and photos, even on a cheap horse. It would save everyone so much time.

[heddylamar]

You are 1000x more patient than me. I'd never have reached the voice mail stage.

Are you looking for a potential eventer? My aunt (upper level dressage and trail rider) bought a great cheap Hanoverian from a breeder in Oregon ~10 years ago. He would have made a fantastic eventer, and did after she sold him. I can try to find out the breeders info if you'd like.

[Xanthoria]

Send it on heddy - Id love an eventer but a great showjumper would be alright too! Thanks

[Sunshine2Me]

Xan -

I have a headache just reading through that!

[musical comedy]

I'm good at very little, but I am good at assessing horse sale ads and identifying red flags. Which is why it took me so long to finally buy. I probably passed up some nice horses and good deals by moving on past ads that didn't show or read the way I thought they should. Most savvy horse people know what they have, so when a price is unreasonably low, I suspect there is a reason. There usually is.

[Hayburner]

I have to say I am not good with my phone, camera, etc. But, if it's important there is always someone I can ask to help me post pics or videos.

If the lady really wants to sell her horses she better get some help communicating

[Xanthoria]

Yeah, I have to say I'd have killed this conversation a long time ago normally, but somehow it's so surreal it's amusing.

How few FACTS can she give while typing so MUCH? It's like a game!

And yes absolutely - she doesn't want to sell and/or she's bonkers. I am absolutely sure the 2 hour each way drive would not be worth it, but that is what it would take to get more information out of her...

[heddylamar]

Does she even own the horses she's trying to sell? It's all shady.

[Bip]

Tell her you will send a cashier’s check for $2000 over asking price and she just needs to give you the change.

[Xanthoria]

Tell her you will send a cashier’s check for $2000 over asking price and she just needs to give you the change.

BAHAHAHAHAH!

[khall]

Xan not sure what you budget is or how young you would look at and since Ponichiwa has found her golden boy, LOOK at this filly!!

https://www.facebook.com/kathryn.schies ... ABWW5jwwrA

OMG she is gorgeous and she goes back to Grundstein!!

[Xanthoria]

Totally gorgeous! No more babies for me tho - learned that lesson, sadly

[Xanthoria]

Just to round this off, eventually Loony Tunes Seller asked me if I would lease the horses off her, break them for her, then return them so she could use them in her Christian Missionary. I kid you not.

Since then I have been looking for a jumper and discovering that I am gonna be out $35k for a boring-looking greenie. I remember having this same spit-take feeling at $15k several years ago; now, $15k seems like a STEAL.

Horse shopping sucks...

[scruffy the cat]

It does suck. My one takeaway from my process is that $25k is like a giant sign that says "There is something wrong with this horse", so buyer beware. It seems like there are good prospects for cheaper- perhaps younger or greener or maybe a little spicy or something. And there are nice horses for more $. But $25k is some magic number where it's a big, flashing sign that says, "Danger, Will Robinson!" Maybe it's because it's where they reduce the prices of the horses that couldn't be sold for more, or it's an inflated price for horses that should have been sold for less. I dunno.

[Tarlo Farm]

Sorry for all that. Lesson to be learned: Quit on day three if there is chaos. Good luck with the search!

[StraightForward]

Just to round this off, eventually Loony Tunes Seller asked me if I would lease the horses off her, break them for her, then return them so she could use them in her Christian Missionary. I kid you not.

How could you not? I mean, think of the children!

$35k... Ouch, I guess I'll be bottom feeding forever unless we win the Powerball.

The other day I was putting on my $700 Petrie boots and realized that they cost twice as much as my first horse.

[Tsavo]

Just to round this off, eventually Loony Tunes Seller asked me if I would lease the horses off her, break them for her, then return them so she could use them in her Christian Missionary. I kid you not.

Since then I have been looking for a jumper and discovering that I am gonna be out $35k for a boring-looking greenie. I remember having this same spit-take feeling at $15k several years ago; now, $15k seems like a STEAL.

Horse shopping sucks...

Have you considered an off breed? My present horse would have been 2-3 times more expensive with his show record had he been a WB.

[Bip]

I would say the danger range for eventers is $15-25k, with the WBs falling at the top of that range. It’s obscene.

(It’s not necessarily obscene that horses cost that much or more, but rather that horses with serious problems are priced that way).

[musical comedy]

I would say the danger range for eventers is $15-25k, with the WBs falling at the top of that range. It’s obscene.

(It’s not necessarily obscene that horses cost that much or more, but rather that horses with serious problems are priced that way).

Bip, check out this nice horse in the UK. You could get him here for <25 delivered. My friend is considering him. Check out the jumping video. What a nice horse.
https://www.horsequest.co.uk/search/197588

[Xanthoria]

Have you considered an off breed? My present horse would have been 2-3 times more expensive with his show record had he been a WB.

I have! I tried to get video on a Welsh x TB in Langley BC but the seller vanished. I'd be totally into a Morgan x TB or an anglo arab, an Arab x of any kid if it had the right gaits, and so on. I won't go the draft x route though - I like 'em hot and forward and built to gallop, and that's not been my experience with that cross.

What I'm lookng for is half TB half ISH, WB, thing that likes to jump and gallop but has nice enough gaits. 16-17h, 3-8 yrs. Prelim capable. Brave, smart. easy keeper, GREAT feet. Healthy. Apparently, it is too much to ask...

(It’s not necessarily obscene that horses cost that much or more, but rather that horses with serious problems are priced that way).

Fully agree. I've had this happen: Oh you reduced the price in half because he's had two suspensories? He's not worth half his previous price: he's worth all of nothing!

musical comedy that horse is on the large side!

[Tsavo]

Xan, that was Bip's quote, not mine though I agree.

[Xanthoria]

oops - fixed it: sorry!

[musical comedy]

musical comedy that horse is on the large side!

Yeah Xan. Here's the thing. My friend is a good, brave rider, but lower level dressage with no showing aspirations. She loves to hack out. She has a husband that rides, and the husband is like 6'6" tall. He's skinny, but still, that is a big person for a horse. He is just a hacker, but with good balance, etc. So...she is looking for a large boned big horse that is suitable for both of them. She is coming up empty. All the horses that seem appropriate are in the UK. If any of you guys come across a horse that might be a fit for her, please let me know. She already has two big horses. One is old and needs retiring and the other is unsound.

[Xanthoria]

Oh jeez - she needs a dressage horse while likes to hack out and is husband safe? How about she takes my 17.1 Negro gelding who got firsts at his two first dressage shows but will never go prelim eventing? Downside: shivers. Upside: very cute, black and handsome.

[musical comedy]

Oh jeez - she needs a dressage horse while likes to hack out and is husband safe? How about she takes my 17.1 Negro gelding who got firsts at his two first dressage shows but will never go prelim eventing? Downside: shivers. Upside: very cute, black and handsome.

She would probably consider him. Only thing is you are in California and we are in NJ. Are you serious about selling him? She is from Belgium and hubby is from Netherlands and they love the KWPN. Husband safe, but not in the traditional thinking of husband safe. This guy has played polo. It's just that he isn't polished and probably wouldn't know how to deal with a horse that tried to take advantage. I don't even think he canters out on trail.

She has her own place with nice turnout and she is home all day, so it would be good for a horse with epsm/shivers.

[scruffy the cat]

I think you should go on a little riding trip to Ireland and maybe sit on a few prospects.

[Bip]

Bip, check out this nice horse in the UK. You could get him here for <25 delivered. My friend is considering him. Check out the jumping video. What a nice horse.
https://www.horsequest.co.uk/search/197588

Oh, he’s lovely. For better or worse, I made my danger zone purchase last year and I still can’t tell if I got the deal of the century or a lemon. I think I already told the Lyme disease story here. We are still rehabbing, which seems like it’s taking much longer than it should. I do want a second horse* but probably in the under $15k range where you know there’s something wrong but it’s obvious enough that you can at least choose your poison.

* Again, expecting my friends to chime in and remind me it would be a THIRD horse, because I do still have my old guy who is in semi-retirement as a lesson horse (current,unofficially my dime, so I don’t include him in the head count even though I should).

[Bip]

I think you should go on a little riding trip to Ireland and maybe sit on a few prospects.

I’m going to pretend you were addressing me because I definitely want to do this.

[Tsavo]

Hi Bip. Can I ask what you are rehabbing from Lyme? Lyme is associated with intermittent moving lamenesses as far as I know. If they are cured with antibiotics the lamenesses disappear. My horse had Lyme and I really had nothing to rehab. I realize all cases are different.

[scruffy the cat]

I think you should go on a little riding trip to Ireland and maybe sit on a few prospects.

I’m going to pretend you were addressing me because I definitely want to do this.

I'll go with you. Wouldn't want you to feel lonely.

[Xanthoria]

Group trip! When do we leave???!!!

[scruffy the cat]

Next week. PACK YOUR BAGS.

My new guy actually was imported from Ireland once upon a time.

[Bip]

Hi Bip. Can I ask what you are rehabbing from Lyme? Lyme is associated with intermittent moving lamenesses as far as I know. If they are cured with antibiotics the lamenesses disappear. My horse had Lyme and I really had nothing to rehab. I realize all cases are different.

I know, it is bizarre. First off, she’s a big long horse with weak stifles, one of which is prone to locking. She had had the Lyme since at least February because I had a titer pulled (not my normal vet) and they called to say results were normal. She progressively got worse and worse and so I pulled another titer in June and it was positive. Which led me to call other vet clinic to compare results of previous test and they were the same! She had it the whole time.

I did a month of doxy and she didn’t respond at all. I was tack walking daily during that period, but she was in so much discomfort, she could only handle level ground, could not go downhill at all, so her stifles just continued to lose condition. Then I sent her to the vet clinic for 2 weeks of IV oxytet, during which time I was also able to tack walk or hand walk daily, but still no downhill at all. My vet was concerned Lyme was not our only issue, so when the IV antibiotics were done, I took her to vet hospital for a bone scan and other diagnostics and we found irritation in her stifles but luckily no damage. But because of the way she was carrying her body (because she’d had Lyme so long), he wanted me to do a month of lunging over poles and hand walking hills before I got on her. And fortunately the first time I got on her, she walked right down the hill to the arena, no problem. So that was a relief! But her stifles were just soooo weak, I’ve been hill walking and trotting for a month and only started little bits of canter this week.

Is there something wrong besides just the Lyme? Am I being overly cautious/paranoid because of my last two horses? I don’t know. I’ve been sending video clips to the vet hospital sports medicine guy and he’s happy with her progress, and I'm hauling to the clinic for a follow up week after next.

[Xanthoria]

Next week. PACK YOUR BAGS.

THEY ARE PACKED.

[Bip]

We have a 3-day weekend right now, so see ya at Logan in the morning?

[Xanthoria]

ALREADY IN DUBLIN.

[scruffy the cat]

Wait WHAT??????

[scruffy the cat]

Hurry up, BIP, we have some catching up to do.

[Xanthoria]

WAITING FOR U. HURRY.

[scruffy the cat]

Save a seat at the pub. I'll be right there!

[Bip]

Either you guys were up really late last night or you ARE in Dublin!

[Xanthoria]

Didn’t make it to Dublin. I do wish someone would just send me a horse though - any horse! Shopping makes me mental :/

[khall]

Xan did you see the one I posted on Tsavo's thread?

https://www.equine.com/horses-for-sale/ ... kskin-mare

I know you said no draft crosses but I cannot tell she has draft in her. Looks like a nice young filly ready to get started riding. I am partial to buckskins myself:) I know she is on the wrong coast, but price is very good.

[Xanthoria]

khall that's a very nice horse for a draft cross! I'm guessing draft x QH with that color? The thing is, can it jump around a Prelim xc course one day, 3’7” to 3’9” show jumps at home, 520 mpm and 30 obstacles at 3'7" on xc. That's often not doable for a drafty, and it's be a few years before I'd find out... hence, I'd rather stack the deck in my favor and get a TB x WB, ISH etc.

[Tsavo]

In my opinion, once again, that mare is very light to be a draft cross. I am not doubting it. I am just saying there are horses advertised that I would have bet money had no draft in them.

[Tsavo]

Also, if she is 16 HH, that handler must be quite tall.

[khall]

Xan it said Canadian sport horse and draft, I don't see draft in there at all. Who the heck knows. I have a buckskin that is Lusitano cross with NO QH.

Have you looked at Connemara Crosses? I got to see a fabulous Connemara stallion be put into the Weser Em book of the GOV my goodness that horse was nice! He is here in Georgia somewhere.

[Tsavo]

My horse is registered with the Canadian Sport Horse Association. It is not a breed but a performance registry as far as I can tell. That and $1 will get you a coffee at McDonalds (plus tax).