MARES-- A venting thread

[PhoenixRising]

Phoenix has been in a MOOD lately.

Spooking has always been an issue for her, and usually its something you can ignore and leg yield her into it.
But lately, she's decided she has an issue with the letter P. She tries to shy away from it EVERY SINGLE TIME we get close. It's right next to a big garage door with windows, and I'd say maybe her reflection is spooking her but its all times of the day, and there are mirrors she is used to so her reflection shouldn't be scaring her. There's nothing outside the doors. We're working on simple changes over the diagonal and half the figure 8's I'm riding are spent just trying to keep her off my right leg and circling.
She ALSO tries to spook at the beginning of the ride at the other garage door at M but stops after a couple times.
She ALSO tries to spook at the mounting block, especially if its a foot or two away from its "normal spot".
She's not truly scared of any of these things and usually after her warmup she's fine, but her issue with P has persisted for over a week. Really it's an evasion tactic, but it's getting old.

She's been running from the trainer in the pasture, and last night she tried it with me. I ended up locking the gate and round penning her right there in the shed lot... in the dark. I couldn't have caught her otherwise.
She had let me walk right up to her, then she saw the halter and spun and ran.

Every. Single. Ride. Since she was 3, she has stopped right outside the arena gate to have her feet picked out. The last two days she's tried to turn around and walk off while I'm still holding her feet.

A couple weeks ago she tried to convince me she was girth sore and pinned her ears and flinched HARD when I touched her girth area. I was all freaked out thinking I needed to change something. The next day? Totally fine.

I left the barn last night literally exhausted after being tested at what felt like every step.
I love my horse, I love my horse, I love my horse....

What do your mares do when they're moody?

Pictured is Phoenix and Supervisor Extraordinaire Mr. Stanley

[StraightForward]

Could be ulcers, especially with the girthiness. I might try a week of UlcerGuard and see if she improves.

[Sue B]

In addition to ulcers, it could also be, in part, a "teenager" thing. In my "vast" experience, I have found that when a horse hits around 5yrs old they begin to challenge everything you thought you taught them--rather like a 14/15 year old kid. Patience will win out in the end.

[PhoenixRising]

Could be ulcers, especially with the girthiness. I might try a week of UlcerGuard and see if she improves.

Interesting you say that, there have been several horses who have come up with ulcers in the time I've been at this barn. It's one reason of many that I choose to keep her on pasture board. Her smartpak has a digestive supplement as well partially for this reason.
She wasn't actually girthy though, I don't think. I think she was messing with me? There was zero indication of an issue the next day or since.

And yes, she's 5 about to turn 6. I've assumed its her age mostly

[KathyK]

I think she was messing with me? There was zero indication of an issue the next day or since.

Horses don't "mess with" us. They simply don't think that way. There was an issue that day, and not the next. Showing her displeasure/unwillingness is the only way she has to indicate a reaction to something, whether it's pain, discomfort, hunger, thirst, whatever.

[Koolkat]

I think she was messing with me? There was zero indication of an issue the next day or since.

Horses don't "mess with" us. They simply don't think that way. There was an issue that day, and not the next. Showing her displeasure/unwillingness is the only way she has to indicate a reaction to something, whether it's pain, discomfort, hunger, thirst, whatever.

^^^^^ This. Horses may react in a certain way to something or other, and humans may reinforce that behavior so the horse continues the behavior, but they do not "plot" or intellectualize.

[Tanga]

Ooooh! I have that horse! And two more! They just have more opinions. My now 9 1/2 year old spooks at the SAME THING EVERY SINGLE TIME. Now, this is the horse that will also go step all over what she's spooking at. I left her tied once with a tarp on the other side of the fence. She pulled it out, flipped it all over, and was standing on it with it around her legs. Cows, turkeys, pigs, all good. The SAME little thing she's gone by every single day forever? Spook.

She has some vision issues I think, but I don't feel too sorry for her because I had a blind horse. So, I try to use it as a benefit to the best of my ability rather than an annoyance. Depending on how she's spooking, we do 200 canter pirouettes, or canter on the spot, or piaffe, or whatever until she decides she's done spooking. She's gotten very strong.

Sue B said she's 5? I 100% agree, all of mine were lovely at 4, and 5 is when they started challenging. My theory is the finally figured out how to move legs and do stuff with you on top, so have more time to concentrate on other things. I think it's the hardest age for a lot of horses.

That said, her sister, now 11 1/2 can do different BS. They are in a "pasture" and when I go on the trail (huge pasture) I let one run loose while I ride. They love it and have been doing it since they were babies. This one can be horrible about being caught, when I do that or in the regular pasture, every once in awhile. She just gets a burr up her behind and runs away. If I try to catch her riding her sister, she kicks at her. I do the old training thing with young horses where I don't try to stop her, but free "lunge" her and push her past where she thinks it's fun, and then make her stop so I'm in control. If she won't stop, I make her "lunge" more.

And their mom . . . she's almost 22 now, so pretty good. But when I got her, it was hard.

I think you have a five year old doing what they do, and it's probably cold, so she has great new ideas. I don't see the ulcer thing, but I guess it couldn't hurt.

[PhoenixRising]

I do mostly agree, poor choice of words.
But she has done "bad" things for me that my trainer says she doesn't do with her. It makes it really hard to tell what's an issue and what's ME. She's not ALWAYS good for her either but usually there's a reason (IE bucking at the beginning of this week, after 5 days off because of the holidays).

I could see the ulcers on account of several other horses at this barn developing them.
But I do think the girthiness would be a continuing thing if she had ulcers, not just a one and done.
Spooking has always been a thing for her, she's just decided to be worse about it lately. This could also be wholly contributed to a bit more inconsistent riding than she's been used to the last several months.

I also hadn't noticed it, but my trainer swears she's in heat all the time. She's the only mare in the pasture now and lives with two old men.

[PhoenixRising]

Sue B said she's 5? I 100% agree, all of mine were lovely at 4, and 5 is when they started challenging. My theory is the finally figured out how to move legs and do stuff with you on top, so have more time to concentrate on other things. I think it's the hardest age for a lot of horses.

Yes! She's 5 coming up rapidly on 6! She's been making leaps and bounds of progress lately and overall is a lot more balanced. I could see there being some truth to this.

Yours sounds exactly like her. She's been ridden in THIS ARENA almost every single time she's been ridden since she was started at 3. Only a handful of outdoor excursions, and a few weeks I rode in the outdoor before she started being a brat and then the weather wasn't good enough. If one tiny little thing changes she's going to notice. New tire tracks on the wall? Better look at 'em funny. Someone left a towel on the chair? OH NO!

We do basically that, a lot of circles leg yielding out toward the object until she settles. But with this P issue she's been settling-ish and then next time we go full arena again look out.

It worries me a bit for how she'll be when we finally show, but I also hope there will be so much new she wont have too much time to focus on one thing.

Weather has been all over the place here. We've had record lows for the area, then felt like spring the next week. Christmas was warmer than Halloween this year. Almost 60 degrees Christmas day!

[Chisamba]

In circumstances like that I will talk to the vet and treatceirh regumate for 90 days, if on the regumate she quits spooking, quits being girthy etc, at least you know its hormonal, not something else,like ulcers or soreness. I had a mare I was sure was hormonal, but regumate didnt help , ulcer treatment didnt help, he back was not painful, we finally did progressive blocks on her hind legs and found her hocks were sore, we started treating them.

But she had been flexed and xrayed, anyway it can be helpful to rule out hormones, or know that's what it is.

[Koolkat]

She has some vision issues I think, but I don't feel too sorry for her because I had a blind horse.

I can see (no pun intended) where partial vision could be worse than blindness. All horses are individuals, some horses that are blind have to be put down because life is too terrifying for them.

[kande50]

I think part of the problem at least, is that the quality of the light this time of year is just so much worse. So if the horse is worried about what might be down at The Other End, or over there between E and H, their concerns are magnified when they can't see as well.

Or at least my spooky gelding tends to be much less concerned on a bright day vs a cloudy one.

[Tanga]

She has some vision issues I think, but I don't feel too sorry for her because I had a blind horse.

I can see (no pun intended) where partial vision could be worse than blindness. All horses are individuals, some horses that are blind have to be put down because life is too terrifying for them.

Yes and no. My other horse so slowly went blind I had no clue until he was about 80%. There is just no way to know how much they see and how they see it. With her, the vet says she doesn't have a clear line between the upper and lower part of her eye, which could be congenital or from something else. Either way, it's been a long time and it's her "normal" vision, so not giving her a lot of excuses. A horse that suddenly loses partial or al vision is a whole other thing and much more difficult in general to deal with.

[Tanga]

It worries me a bit for how she'll be when we finally show, but I also hope there will be so much new she wont have too much time to focus on one thing.

Well, yeah. You never know. It could be terrible or could be great. One of the scariest spookers I ever had to deal with could kill you if a leaf fell in the arena. But, if the wind was whipping, tree branches falling, tarps flying everywhere, it was too much for her to concentrate on, so she didn't spook. You just need to figure out what kind of horse you have and how to deal with it. That could take a couple of shows, or a couple of years, or five, or ten, or she could be different at every show!

One of the reasons dressage is so hard is most of us think we have it down. Then we go to a show and have a whole new horse doing brand new things they've never done!

[Flight]

I know I wont be popular suggesting it, but what helped my big horse with his spooking in my arena (which does have a spooky side - neighbours junk piles, but the arena is in his paddock), is just letting him stand and look and wait for him to take a breath and relax. I gave him as long as he needed, which meant abandoning a couple of rides to this, but in the long run it's paid off.
You can force your horse to keep going, bend them away from the spooky area, kick them on, make them listen and this can work. You can make them obedient to you, but doesn't tend to take away the underlying tensions they have. I also find that you then have trouble catching etc.

[Tanga]

Flight --I have done that. It's a good idea. But, didn't help with my horse. She doesn't spook at new things. She spooks at the same thing, like over and over and over on a ten meter circle. I have to find a way to make her work.

[kande50]

You can force your horse to keep going, bend them away from the spooky area, kick them on, make them listen and this can work. You can make them obedient to you, but doesn't tend to take away the underlying tensions they have. I also find that you then have trouble catching etc.

It's so hard to decide what is working and what isn't because it's such a study of one, and chances are very good that they're going to become more confident in time no matter what we do.

I did a lot of the slow habituation stuff because I didn't want to risk laming him, or contribute to the ulcer risk by trying to force him, and while he's definitely more confident than he was he continues to have a small comfort zone compared to most of my other horses. I'm also way more interested in cooperation than obedience, so tend to spend time trying to get that first before upping the pressure.

[PhoenixRising]

We conquered P!

Saturday ride went pretty well, and I made a point of working through the P issue at the beginning. The rest of the ride after that went well.
Sunday, she was perfect and we had a great lesson.

I'm just happy we can go full arena somewhat easily again!

[Flight]

It's so hard to decide what is working and what isn't because it's such a study of one, and chances are very good that they're going to become more confident in time no matter what we do.

I did a lot of the slow habituation stuff because I didn't want to risk laming him, or contribute to the ulcer risk by trying to force him, and while he's definitely more confident than he was he continues to have a small comfort zone compared to most of my other horses. I'm also way more interested in cooperation than obedience, so tend to spend time trying to get that first before upping the pressure.

True, well study of 3 now.. so I must be an expert Yes, I've tried to go down that path nowadays.

Glad you got P sorted PhoenixRising!

[PaulaO]

Mares. Ariel is a dream under saddle, but a PITA on the ground. She knows what she is supposed to do, but is a typical red head and opinionated. Mares are so different from geldings in many ways. I always said I wouldn't have a mare because I didn't like the mare turnout at the old barn. It all depends on the horse though, and I would never discount having another mare. You just have to discuss things with them and be firm.

Glad you have conquered P!

[silk]

It's so hard to decide what is working and what isn't because it's such a study of one, and chances are very good that they're going to become more confident in time no matter what we do.

I did a lot of the slow habituation stuff because I didn't want to risk laming him, or contribute to the ulcer risk by trying to force him, and while he's definitely more confident than he was he continues to have a small comfort zone compared to most of my other horses. I'm also way more interested in cooperation than obedience, so tend to spend time trying to get that first before upping the pressure.

True, well study of 3 now.. so I must be an expert Yes, I've tried to go down that path nowadays.

Glad you got P sorted PhoenixRising!

I always did this with my girl. Anything she was spooking at, she had to look at and approach, and, if she would, sniff. It turned her into a very curious horse who tends to pause at a scary thing then go towards it to investigate. Very useful.

[piedmontfields]

My mare is a fairly fearful horse by nature and also mid-ranking in the horsey world (as in she is not an alpha mare). She also, like most mares, is highly observant of changing conditions. However, she trusts me and trusts that I am on her side.

Over the years, we've come to various agreements, like in the arena I will expect obedience and to be able to shoulder in her away from whatever new jump/liverpool/change of environment she is disturbed by until she settles. However, when we are out on the trail if she suddenly "alerts", I know to listen to her. She has saved us from many situations over the years. This give and take seems to help her "belief" in me, in that I listen when it is important and I help her through scary (change) situations. That said, she just is a somewhat reactive horse and I only let people with a good seat ride her outside the arena--just in case.

I actually don't do the "approach the scary object" exercise because it can make my mare very panicky as she is torn between fear and obedience. Instead, I just create a safe bubble (isn't that what dressage is? ) for her to be in while we work with the scary thing in our environment. Sometimes she will later request to investigate something but usually she is happy to have the scary object just melt away from the safe bubble getting bigger.

BTW, we have had such a warm winter (temps in 60-70s this week) that my mare is also starting to cycle again. That has got to feel a little crazy for her...she is usually more reactive and spooky when cycling.

[Ryeissa]

I do better with geldings, Rye was a good mare but it wasn't the best match for me. Its so hard to tell what is personality, health, and pain. Good luck. (my mare was supppppper stubborn)

[heddylamar]

Maia has hit a particularly challenging stretch

The vet and chiropractor both say she's in fine physical shape ........ she's just got a LARGE case of "that's not the way *I* want to do [whatever] right now " Fortunately, neither my barn owner nor I will put up with her pushiness.

Yesterday it took 5 minutes for her to finally realize that yes, I still require that she stand quiet and not try to lunge away before I will finally let her run off into the field. There were a lot of dramatic sighs

[redsoxluvr]

I will be the dissenter and say you are dealing with a young horse, and sometimes they test boundaries or limits. Sometimes they say no when they have said yes before. It's not always pain or hormones or gender. I would not pin this on being a mare. She's 5. I would get some professional assistance and see what happens.

[PhoenixRising]

Redsox, I do have professional assistance. I have a trainer who rides her 2-3 days a week- more if I cant. I also take lessons with her at least 1x a week, 2x as often as possible.

The more I sit on this and observe her, the more I think it may possibly be BOTH things.

I'm going to have her teeth checked again, although they were done in the late summer/early fall last year. I'm also putting her on a supplement with added calcium, magnesium, and aloe to neutralize stomach acid. It has great reviews for horses that have been girthy and a bit crabby. If it doesn't improve with those things, I'll definitely have her scoped and do ulcergard.

I'm also considering talking to my barn about providing my own feed. I'm not sure how much feed contributes to these issues, if it is ulcers, but I have never been a fan of what they're feeding now and I wonder if it's a contributer.

I honestly made this post originally as a way to laugh about the tough week I'd been having. But really, it opened my eyes some. It really hadn't occurred to me that it could be something more than just a bad mood so I appreciate ALL forms of advice I've gotten just as much as I've appreciated hearing your stories about your difficult ones.

Hoping to report back in a few weeks with some improvement!