Improving position, biomechanics?

[Josette]

Dresseur - thanks very much for your clarification of how you use the seat. I understand what you mean about riding every stride. This discussion is very helpful and the feedback for what you see in a video. thank you!

[Beorn]

Since one can only " cop a feel" when the horse is in motion, and then it's not as if you could put your own hands under your seat to feel how you are sequencing muscle engagement, I find the above mentioned post pretty unlikely to actually help riding.

*shrug*

My personal experience is to the contrary. Instructor first works with student at a halt to cue engagement of specific muscles and patterns in addition to appropriate position. 'Squeeze your thigh', 'tuck your abdominals', and 'sit up' can actually be interpreted a number of different ways, some of which are more useful than others and some of which can actually lead to bracing and stiffness. If she can break it down to the specific muscles that need to be engaged (*here*) by asking a student to show that they are actually physically capable of doing so, then surely that can benefit learning.

[Ryeissa]

Since one can only " cop a feel" when the horse is in motion, and then it's not as if you could put your own hands under your seat to feel how you are sequencing muscle engagement, I find the above mentioned post pretty unlikely to actually help riding.

*shrug*

My personal experience is to the contrary. Instructor first works with student at a halt to cue engagement of specific muscles and patterns in addition to appropriate position. 'Squeeze your thigh', 'tuck your abdominals', and 'sit up' can actually be interpreted a number of different ways, some of which are more useful than others and some of which can actually lead to bracing and stiffness. If she can break it down to the specific muscles that need to be engaged (*here*) by asking a student to show that they are actually physically capable of doing so, then surely that can benefit learning.

yes, this. I spend at least some time at the halt each lesson confirming how to activate or engage certain things, or how to turn my lower hips and not my upper hips, etc.

[Chisamba]

Sorry, in advance, for diverting, but chisamba , your posts crack me up. You must have autocorrect on or something.

Carry on.

I'm sorry, I even try to reread to edit.

[demi]

This may throw a huge wrench in things - and it could just be semantics, but IMO, I don't want to follow and absorb movement. I want to direct and create through my seat and aids. That does not mean that I'm nagging every stride for something, but I am taking that forward and using it. I want to use the movement that is inherent in the horse's back to amplify the gait and make the movement more expressive. Of course, the horse has to be strong enough to act on these aids, and be trained to understand these aids, but that's why the training is progressive. It's riding every stride vs following.

As an aside, I agree with Chisamba, I really enjoy what Catherine Haddad has to say, I would never seek to emulate her as a rider. More often than not, she is in a chair seat, and her horses usually show quite shortened necks or overbent postures. Even in the demo link, where the horse has more room in the neck, it's breaking at the 3rd.

I like this post.

I think it could be semantics because I understand what you're saying. I think what may be hard to describe is the balance between following the movement and influencing the movement. When I think of following the movement of the horse it's about eliminating as much unnecessary movement on my part as possible.I really like how CH explained how much effort she puts in to eliminating the static. As we've mentioned, unnecessary movement is like static in a radio signal. The less static, the clearer the signal. So, the better I follow and absorb, the better the horse will feel when I do "direct and create through my seat and aides".

I like they way you said "I want to use the movement that is inherent in the horse's back to amplify the gait and make the movement more expressive." Nicely expressed, and something I'd like to remember every time I get on my horse.

As far as the CH vid, I also was less than happy about the horse being overbent but he seemed happy and she sure looked like a sympathetic rider.

The chair seat doesn't bother me. I don't want to ride in a chair seat myself but on some horses it may be the best way. Or for some riders it may be the best way. Her particular chair seat looks harmonious and maybe that's why I don't mind it.

[Dresseur]

I disagree re chair seat. There is a reason the neutral pelvis and stacked spine is used throughout history. It's the most neutral, yet effective position. Riders in chair seats are behind the motion, driving the back down, and rider tends to have to use more hand because they cannot use their seat and core effectively to affect the balance. They are not in self carriage themselves, and the horses follow suit. I personally will not be convinced that a chair seat will garner the same results than if the rider fixed the position fault.

[Chisamba]

Using a hands under the seat to determine weight of seat bones is understandable. I did not get that from the terminology used.

Dresseur, i think seat aids, and leg aids, used every stride become crutches and are no longer aids, unless I am mistaking you too.

[Dresseur]

I'll try to clarify- I'm not actively aiding every step, because I agree, that becomes noise. But I am always ready to aid, and I am constantly testing the response to my aids. Will they go out, will they come back. So I'm constantly feeling and responding if necessary. So, while I'm not aiding constantly, I'm not passive either.

[khall]

Dresseur that makes better sense and yes I agree about how you are riding. I think of it as internal energy keeping it going. I have to with the two main horses I ride who are energy conservationists. With a more forward thinking horse that internal energy is tamped down. I also agree re chair seat, there is a reason that ear hip heel is the accepted seat position. So we can stay in balance and in a neutral position when we are not needing to aid the horse.

[Ryeissa]

I have found that having a shorter stirrup and more angle helps me half halt better. I never think a chair seat allows effective and balanced riding.
If you loose the angle and position there is no way to maintain inner rotation of thigh and tone.