Stirrup Stepping Redux

[StraightForward]

I started a thread asking about this a few years ago, and let's say, it did not end well.

At the time, I was asking because it was mentioned in a passage on changing bend in Dressage Principles Base on Biomechanics.

I didn't realize that there is a long description of SS at the end of that book.

So anyway, riding with minimal pressure in the stirrups, the idea is to push down just a little with the toe to put the grounded foot just a little more into the ground, much like pushing the gas pedal on a car. It can be combined with other HH aids, or used lightly on its own. I only have a very green horse to experiment on, but I'm finding that it's a really nice, subtle aid to help her, especially with lateral balance, without disturbing the forward motion. It's helping me with improving the timing of my aids because if I SS at the wrong moment, I can tell, but being so subtle, there isn't really any harm done, and then I get the improved balance once I time it correctly. It seems to also keep the rider's hip angle open, and highlights how subtle effective aids can/should be, which is a nice bonus.

So I was curious if anyone else knows of this aid and uses it, or has been using it for a long time? Thomas Ritter is the only one I've ever heard/read mentioning it, but it seems so valuable and like it should be more widely used. Perhaps the pros use it unconsciously and keep the secret away from us?

[heddylamar]

I’m not sure if I’m using it in keeping with the book you’re talking about (I’ve not read it), but per an upper level former instructor of mine, I step into the stirrup of the direction of travel. Eg. when leg yielding left, I step into the left stirrup. As you said, it’s not a heavy weight, just a subtle shift of weight. It works wonders on a jumping course and with my green 4yo.

[StraightForward]

I’m not sure if I’m using it in keeping with the book you’re talking about (I’ve not read it), but per an upper level former instructor of mine, I step into the stirrup of the direction of travel. Eg. when leg yielding left, I step into the left stirrup. As you said, it’s not a heavy weight, just a subtle shift of weight. It works wonders on a jumping course and with my green 4yo.

This is a little different - often the SS would be applied as the outside hind lands, to keep it driving, though the rider's weight might be more to the inside to direct the turn. The weight aid is applied for the duration of the turning, while the SS is applied as a pulse when the foot or quadrant of the horse it is aimed at is on the ground.

[musical comedy]

So I was curious if anyone else knows of this aid and uses it, or has been using it for a long time? Thomas Ritter is the only one I've ever heard/read mentioning it, but it seems so valuable and like it should be more widely used. Perhaps the pros use it unconsciously and keep the secret away from us?

I use it. The first I heard of it was from Karl Mikolka. Stirrup Stepping was discussed on udbb a long time ago, but as far as I know nobody ever got Mikolka's definition unless it was in his newsletters. I do think this is one of those things that is done unconsciously by many and not given a name.

[Tsavo]

I have Ritter's book and will look up what he says but I think this is so subtle that the dangers of actually telling someone to do this will likely result in way over-doing it.

[musical comedy]

I have Ritter's book and will look up what he says but I think this is so subtle that the dangers of actually telling someone to do this will likely result in way over-doing it.

It depends on who the 'someone' is and how advanced they are in their riding.

[StraightForward]

I have Ritter's book and will look up what he says but I think this is so subtle that the dangers of actually telling someone to do this will likely result in way over-doing it.

It depends on who the 'someone' is and how advanced they are in their riding.

Yes, when I first read about it, I assumed that it was a heavier aid, but with experimenting a bit (mostly in walk), it became clear that it's very subtle. I don't know what else you'd call it, but SS just sounds much more heavy-handed (footed?) than it is. I was just thinking, to me it kind of feels like when you're standing on a slightly unsteady surface, say a boat in calm waters, you might use your toes and forefoot a bit to rebalance, but it probably wouldn't even be apparent to an observer.

I think the thread you're remembering is the one I started. I was pretty much told not to worry about it, because I suck too much and will fail, but no, it was never defined.

[Dresseur]

I have had discussions with my coach about why she doesn't teach this early on. Her response was that while she will use it in order to help a green horse out or in movements like the half pass, she doesn't teach it, or really mention it until the rider has control over their seat and core. In her experience, what tends to happen is that the rider will start tipping their pelvis one way or another, or leaning over one way or another. Basically, in her experience, for green riders, it tends to create deviations in the their positions. She also had mentioned that for some riders, it also has a tendency to make them forget about using the legs for aiding, because they are just shifting right or left like an unbalanced backpack. The horse will respond, because it's trying to keep itself under the rider's mass, so it ends up being a bit of a parlor trick that prevents the rider from being truly effective. But, like I said, she uses it and she has taught me to use this technique, but it wasn't until I was knit together in my position that she added this layer.

Edited to add...she also doesn't call it stirrup stepping - she just talks about shifting weight in the direction of travel or grounding the inside leg, but it's subtle, no falling off to one side or another.

[Tsavo]

I think just turning your head will weight the stirrup on that side if you don't collapse at the waist. That's my impression of how subtle that is. But I will read Ritter on that. By the way, that book has got to be one of the most beautiful dressage books ever published.

[Tsavo]

But, like I said, she uses it and she has taught me to use this technique, but it wasn't until I was knit together in my position that she added this layer.

You look completely knit together and then some based on those latest pictures of you and Miro.

[Dresseur]

Thanks Tsavo! I'm pleased with the improvements in my position overall now that I'm riding more horses and getting experience on a wide range of horse types and abilities.

[StraightForward]

Edited to add...she also doesn't call it stirrup stepping - she just talks about shifting weight in the direction of travel or grounding the inside leg, but it's subtle, no falling off to one side or another.

Thanks for that explanation, Dresseur. Does she never SS into an outside hind while weighting an inside seatbone?

With the little bit I've played with Thomas' instructions for using it in a change of bend, it's on the inside hind leg twice, bend change, then SS onto the same leg once it's become the outside hind. It seems to have a grounding effect, so that the horse doesn't fall in to the new bend even if the rider is shifting the weight that direction.

[StraightForward]

I think just turning your head will weight the stirrup on that side if you don't collapse at the waist. That's my impression of how subtle that is. But I will read Ritter on that. By the way, that book has got to be one of the most beautiful dressage books ever published.

The SS would often be applied on the outside leg, so not in the direction of travel, and again, only for a moment. I agree that the weight aid for turning can also be quite subtle, and applied just by looking in the direction of travel. Perhaps the SS on the OH or OF corrects for this when the weight is encouraging the horse to fall in?

[musical comedy]

I think the thread you're remembering is the one I started. I was pretty much told not to worry about it, because I suck too much and will fail, but no, it was never defined.

LOL, I don't remember that. My trainer once told me something to that effect when I asked about an aid he was using and why. There is nothing wrong with failing. Experimentation is good. That's how some of us learn.

Sshe also doesn't call it stirrup stepping - she just talks about shifting weight in the direction of travel or grounding the inside leg, but it's subtle, no falling off to one side or another.

Yes, this is probably how most people think of it. When the term 'stirrup stepping' came about, a few of us thought this was some new discovery.

I have used it as a 'parlor trick' I'm ashamed to admit. This would have been in half pass. I also admit that my stepping is sometimes not subtle when a horse does not want to load that inside leg. Hey, some the best trainers are not subtle when training.

[Dresseur]

MC I agree with you - sometimes in training it's not subtle when a horse doesn't want to load a hind leg or move off of a leg. She says get the response, finesse it later - because in addition to strength and dexterity, you are training responses to your aids. And in terms of parlor trick, that's how she got me riding the half pass better! I just meant that for green riders, it is a trick, rather than the rider truly being effective. She wants riders to be effective first, and know what they are asking for and why. Nuances come as you get to be a better rider or when you are on a more highly trained horse. (not always, I can be quite UN-nuanced when riding Gala )

StraightForward, I suspect she does, but she would say that she's guarding with the outside leg or pressing it down and back in movements like half pass or haunches in. So, you are sitting in the direction of travel (weighting inside seat bone) but stretching the outside leg down and back to aid the haunches or guard them from falling out such as on a small volte.

[Tsavo]

Ritter discusses stirrup-stepping several places in the book but mainly in the penultimate chapter which contains an incredibly complex discussion of the topic. When I bought this book several years ago, I read most of it. I don't think I read the stirrup-stepping chapter.

After skimming all the instances of mention of stirrup-stepping, my impression is that it is underlining or even micromanaging what the horse will do anyway if using correct weight aids. It does seem to be an amplification of weight aids which probably isn't necessary on a trained horse.

[lorilu]

Right now I am struggling with MY aids for the flying change. Reading this, I wonder if the new outside hind is not getting the message because I am not "grounding" it enough with my HH - and most likely I am leaning into the new inside, compounding the issue. Hmmm making me think.

And I remember that thread long ago. Lots of attitude IIRC - along the lines of "If you don't know you aren't far enough along to understand"........
Glad this thread is different.

[StraightForward]

Glad this thread is different.

Yes, me too!

I was playing with stirrup stepping while standing on my Fluidstance board at work. It is definitely possible to be applying a steady weight aid to one side, and then add a pulsing SS to the other side, without throwing the weight over. Trying this on the board was very enlightening about how little of an aid is required; maybe it should be called a toe tap instead of stirrup step?

For me, fairly competent, but perpetually lower-level rider on a green horse, I still find it useful. Even when my timing was not perfect, Annabelle learned this quickly as a preparatory HH prior to halting, and I think with a little more practice will help me keep her hinds under at the halt. She likes to trail her RH way behind the body and then leak forward with her fronts rather than committing to the halt.

I have not ridden many flying changes in my left (on purpose ) but one thing Thomas says about the SS is to think of it as dribbling a basket ball. The aid pushes the leg a little more into the ground to hopefully flex it, then it must be released quickly if you want to take advantage of the rebound, or upward bounce. It does seem to me, intuitively, that adding a little more recoil on the new OH would help with a little more air time for the change?