Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

[kande50]

This sounds like what I call "forward HHs". It is the only HH I was formally taught. The rest I had to find during experimentation.

I was thinking that it sounded more like what some call riding with a forward hand rather than a forward half halt, but it could be either because neither term is very well defined.

There is NFW we were going to get correct collection without this telescoping and extension along the topline into the hand. This was the bottleneck we got through.

NFW because he was posing to avoid the contact? Do you think that a horse who isn't posing, is well ifv, and is on contact also needs to learn to telescope?

I'm just trying to visualize how it works, as it seems like if the horse's front end is already in the correct position to collect then all it would take is the right balance between forward and hh's to get him to lift more in front?

[Tsavo]

A horse can be IFOTV and still be posed with no knowledge of how to take a HH.

It has to be alive and adjustable, not just in correct position. The horse may start IFOTV but if he comes off live contact or BTV then you need a way to recover the correct.

The art of training is having tools for bottleneck situations and not taking forever to fix things.

[Dresseur]

I wish that I would have understood sooner than I did. I WAS taught to do "forward" hh. I THOUGHT I was doing it. But I wasn't giving enough/giving in a manner that allowed the horse to telescope out. And yes, this DOES need to be taught to a horse; the following the hand. If the horse is posed, there is no recycling of energy, even if the horse looks correct. There needs to be a fluidity to contact that allows for fluidity in the rest of the horse. I'm now into this course correction for a week/week and a half. The horses that Andrea trains understand this and I've been having the best rides ever on them. My horse, who loves to pose and duck, I'm having a hard time because I'm teaching him what to do with the rein when I take a feel and then give forward. It's easier in the trot somehow than in the canter - the canter feels like his neck is stuck on - but I'm having moments where I give and he telescopes, so it'll get there.

So, in it's infancy - the trot is going from this:

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To this:

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It's not a huge change, but it's not stuck. The movement is a bit different, a bit rounder, and when he is following the hand, his nose comes out by about 3 inches, I think you can see that it's more uphill as well. He does have a short, very thick neck, so I need all the length I can get.

Basically, I lift up the bit, add a bit of energy, and give forward with my hand, over and over until I feel him take the rein out, like fish on the line. If you've ever fished, it's not the feel after you set the line and start reeling in, it's when you first feel you have a bite, and the line goes out a bit. Then I check it back to me to maintain the balance (so that it doesn't fall downhill), and I repeat process. (The check back is more in my seat than anything I'm doing with my hands).

[Dresseur]

Here's another "after" that is not really an after yet. More of an in process.

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And the canter I think you can tell a pretty huge difference here. But it's not consistent at all, and I really have to work to get him to take his neck out. What's makes it difficult, especially without mirrors, is that he's not heavy in the reins, and I can let go, and he doesn't tank down - but that's part of the problem. I would let go or give forward, and NOTHING changed.
Before:

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"After"
You can see the slack in the reins here. I got him up and a bit more open, but he didn't continue to take the neck out. But still, I have to get him uncurled first, and then I can keep working the neck longer. I'll take this above what I was getting before any time.

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[Tsavo]

That's a nice set of pictures, Dresseur. The first one of you in the blue shirt (third photo) is the best of you I think other than the hand issue. Your chest is open and you look perfectly balanced and riding from your core and in self carriage yourself.

The last one is what my horse was doing. Posing in an FEI frame without the strength to back it up. This is why I was able to do one or two rein uberstreichen from third anywhere in the ring when nothing else was at that level. My horse was not adjustable and he wasn't following the contact.

I had too little so I went through a period where I asked him for too much in my hands. That gave me something to work with but it was the forward HH trained response that got him up to the hand. I think it is impossible to get anywhere unless you have something to work with.

I just learned a test for being in the bridle... halt at a letter and try to flex at the poll (no neck) left and right without giving up either rein. I tried this in a lesson on a horse I am exercising and we were all over the place. Could not stay halted, turned when asked to flex, bent the neck, exited the arena, etc. It was so ridiculous that I just started laughing. But the next day I practiced it and it went south again for several minutes until he realized what I wanted. Then is was easy. It's just a matter of training a response and being consistent. I suspect we will need another day or more to have it automatic but he knows what I want.

Many of these photos show your hands to be uneven. Just wondering why. I started dropping my left had in both directions in response to my horse losing his ability to go straight. I have also seen my GP instructor carry her hands in all manner of places on a rehab who was crooked as hell.

[Dresseur]

Thank you Tsavo! This is one of the few times that I didn't choose pics to show perfect position, was looking more at him. So, my hands, two things - one - whatever hand my whip is in, I tend to carry higher - I've been working on it lol. The other, he tends to be a bit stiffer on the left rein, so I'm often doing tiny lifts to keep him soft. In vid, you can't really see it, in stills is where you can see it. The 1st, 2nd, and 5th pic (the right canter pic) is normally where I keep my hands - the others, I'm in the middle of taking a bit of an upward feel to correct a stiffness/crookedness that I feel in him.

[Tsavo]

Well if you carry the whip in the inside hand, it is okayer to raise that hand than the outside hand.

How frequent are those outside hand raises?

I would be interested to hear what your instructor says about even momentary lifts of the outside hand given how consistent my instructors have been on this issue (not to do it).

[Dresseur]

It's not very often. Like I said, I'm aware that I have a tendency to carry my whip hand higher, which I've been working on. I try to keep my whip on the inside to mitigate that. On horses that are straighter, I don't lift one hand vs another, but, he's 4, so of course he's a bit crooked, which means that I correct when and what I need to correct to bring him closer to straightness. To answer your question about what my instructor says... no, she doesn't advocate lifting the outside hand - however, if he or any other horse is hooked to one side or the other and wanting to lean down, (whether it's my fault or not) I use my leg and hand if necessary to straighten - whether it's the inside or outside that needs straightening.

[demi]

I think these recent pics are along the lines of what Dresseur and Tsavo are talking about. I go back and forth between having her head too high, then too low. When she is too low, I HH (with my seat)at the same time as I lift both hands. When my trainer first saw me doing this, she said "don't bump her up with your hands, but flick your wrists out instead". I tried doing what she said, and it worked for a few times. Then it quit working so I went back to "bumping her up". Then trainer started riding her and I noticed that she is bumping her up....instead of flicking wrists out. At least, she isn't posing, and I can feel when it's right.

The first two pics were taken just 2-3 weeks ago, and the last pic was 2 months ago. So it isn't consistent, and it is taking a lot of time to get this fixed. But there are so many other things going on that it I am not worried about not getting it fixed NOW. We had 1.)trailering issues ,2.) we switched form once a week to every other week lessons, 3.) we have a saddle that is downhill and rolls, 4.) I am still out of shape and overweight. Sooo....we keep working. And little by little it is improving.

I have another lesson Tuesday and I am thinking about riding her myself this time. It is a hard call, because, of course the trainer is much better for the horse, but OTH, I need the kick in the butt that riding in front of the trainer will give me. I also need to video myself again, so that's the plan for tomorrow.

in the mean time, I am thrilled to have a great trainer, and I love my lessons.

[demi]

so in thinking about this, I need to say, it's not just a matter of having her head too high or too low. It's also about getting her hindquarters under, and about being responsive to my seat. I struggle with having my own seat exactly where it needs to be at the moment I need it to be there, if that makes sense. Rocky has a short back and she can bounce me all over the place. I have to concentrate very hard to stay in the right place and relax at the same time.

[demi]

I have been looking at the the pics of Rocky and am still thinking this through. In the first pic, her head is too high, and I think she is tuning out my seat, but she is still telescoping and reaching for the bit. There is a little foam on the corner of her lips. When I look at the pic, I am pretty sure my response was to relax my seat and wait for her to lower her head.

The second pic, she's dropped her head too low and is starting to come BTV. I can tell by looking at my foot that I am prepareing to HH, or scoot my seat forward and lift my hands a bit.

The third pic, is exactly where I want her, but I've let my left rein get too long and am trying keep the contact by moving my hand up and back...

It's a balancing act and I am challenged.

[Tsavo]

It is important not to beat yourself up.

I think many people could ride a horse who is correctly in the bridle very well. I further think that few people can get a horse correctly and consistently in the bridle if they are not in the bridle. I could not for years but my horse was posing so it didn't look as bad as it really was. His expert posing delayed my learning in my opinion but that is water under the bridge. In the last several years I was getting even foam which was the proof for my horse. It is not proof on other horses... they will foam up even if not in the bridle.

Too high and too low and posed are evasions to being in the bridle. I think most of these things stem from a non-forward hand. Forward hand is so alien to humans that I think it is probably the most common bottle neck after needing to do the opposite of fetal position. On a horse that knows how to be in the bridle, sometimes just pushing your hands forward 1/16 inch can satisfy them. Or just ride around imagining you are pressing your knuckles against a board. You can have almost any amount in your hand and still have a forward hand. Backward hand is just fatal.

[kande50]

It's a balancing act and I am challenged.

Me too, but my plan is to just continue to get as much as I can get without feeling like I could be further damaging my already damaged (club footed) horse, continue to focus on the details instead of trying to take shortcuts, and be satisfied with what he can give me.

After all, it's me getting in his way not him getting in mine!

Even though I took the winter off he seems to be more than willing to do everything we were working on last fall (I could feel all those counted circles when I got on him this spring), and he has way more endurance than I do, so I feel like we're in a good place to get restarted.

This discussion is just so perfect for what interests me right now that I'm motivated to go set up the video cameras again. I took some video with my ipod last time I rode, but can get much better footage with my video cameras so I'm going to go set them up before saddling up today--and maybe even remember to turn at least one of them on.

[Rosie B]

Dresseur - positive changes in Miro!! Thanks for sharing.

Bliss has been coming along very well. We're getting ready for another clinic with Cindy Ishoy in two weeks.

Yesterday Bliss was looking fine and also did double duty with my son and I for a moment.

[Hot4Spots]

Okay. Just shoot me - not the horse. Remember my earlier post about mysterious severe lameness (right fore), which resolved overnight - though I treated it all week with poultice since at first glance, it seemed likely to be an abscess? He was sound in less than 24 hours, 4 days later vet found nothing, and we've been doing our walking under saddle routine ever since (about a month+). Figure on having vet out in May for exam/possible ultrasound. Rode Saturday, not even 1cc of ACE, all around the property at a quiet walk even in the face of rioting boxer dogs and an invasion by wild turkey(ies) (good boy! even if drug assisted). Come out Sunday...three-legged lame on the OTHER foreleg. Seriously?!?!?!? This time there is/was some filling on the inside of the foreleg below the knee, not extending into pastern.

This was about 10:30 A.M. I buted, wrapped leg. Went back out around 4PM. Still bad. Called vet. Arranged for emergency vet visit. That took about an hour of back and forth on the phone. At 5PM, checked him out and he's walking pretty much sound. Cancelled vet. Got up an hour early this morning (4:30 AM) to check him out, had to rouse him from his beauty sleep, with a Who me? Lame? he walked right out. I may be imagining things, but I thought there might be a SLIGHT hesitation, but the bute should have worn off by this morning, so ??? I'll check him tonight and go from there. Others have suggested he's stressing front end because of hind suspensory, but he's been sound at the walk, which is the only ridden exercise he gets. Also, as you know this has been a long saga, and I would think if the hind injury was causing him to stress the front something would have happened before now. Another suggestion was maybe he paws (he doesn't), or maybe he's tripped, or been cast, or something if his stall mats are uneven (this may be a possibility - it's something I've been meaning to ask BOs to fix), but no evidence that he got cast. Anybody else have any suggestion re a SEVERE lamness that has jumped from right leg to left leg (a month or more apart between) and disappears in 24 hours??

[demi]

What a bummer Hot4spots. I feel for you. I have had horses that always seemed to have issues that kept them unrideable, or just walk work. It was so frustrating. The vet bills were bad enough but not being able to ride my horse was worse. I sure hope your luck changes.

[piedmontfields]

Very frustrating, H4S. I have had that experience, but it was always hoof abcesses. Aren't you in California? Hasn't it been really rainy lately?

[kande50]

Anybody else have any suggestion re a SEVERE lamness that has jumped from right leg to left leg (a month or more apart between) and disappears in 24 hours??

Sounds just like Lyme (or another tick borne disease) to me, but I don't know if you even have Lyme, or ticks, out there?

[demi]

It's a balancing act and I am challenged.

Me too, but my plan is to just continue to get as much as I can get without feeling like I could be further damaging my already damaged (club footed) horse, continue to focus on the details instead of trying to take shortcuts, and be satisfied with what he can give me.

After all, it's me getting in his way not him getting in mine!

Even though I took the winter off he seems to be more than willing to do everything we were working on last fall (I could feel all those counted circles when I got on him this spring), and he has way more endurance than I do, so I feel like we're in a good place to get restarted.

This discussion is just so perfect for what interests me right now that I'm motivated to go set up the video cameras again. I took some video with my ipod last time I rode, but can get much better footage with my video cameras so I'm going to go set them up before saddling up today--and maybe even remember to turn at least one of them on.

Last night sitting on the couch with the dog on one side,the cat on the other, a glass of wine, and my laptop, I was all gung ho to video today....but the day turned out chilly and overcast and all my motivation disappeared. I did manage to ride but the thought of dealing with the vid was just too much.

[kande50]

Last night sitting on the couch with the dog on one side,the cat on the other, a glass of wine, and my laptop, I was all gung ho to video today....but the day turned out chilly and overcast and all my motivation disappeared. I did manage to ride but the thought of dealing with the vid was just too much.

Setting up cameras can be a project sometimes. I hadn't set mine up since November so had to gather up a lot of wires and equipment to get started again.

Amazingly though, I left the computer I use to capture video down in the indoor all winter, and by some miracle it fired up again this spring and captured video! Also by some miracle I got off mid-ride to lunge and remembered to check to see if the computer was capturing, which it wasn't, so I turned it back on and ended up getting quite a bit of footage.

I think I overestimated his endurance though, because he used up so much energy leaping around when I lunged him that he seemed tired when I got on to ride, so I didn't ride for very long. I did get some good footage of where he is now though, so can use that as a baseline for where we started in 2018.

[Tsavo]

Anybody else have any suggestion re a SEVERE lamness that has jumped from right leg to left leg (a month or more apart between) and disappears in 24 hours??

Sounds just like Lyme (or another tick borne disease) to me, but I don't know if you even have Lyme, or ticks, out there?

My horse had Lyme but I'm not an expert. I think the symptoms of Lyme are vague, relatively small moving lamenesses. Not saying dramatic lamenesses can't be Lyme. I am just saying I have not heard that before.

[khall]

dresseur I have a suggestion about the contact, try lowering your hands so there is not a broken line from your elbow to Miro's mouth. I feel you there, trying to get them up and out and get stuck in the aret up. I do the same. I have found if I lower my hands that is enough of a release for them to reach and carry themselves out to the bit better.

[Dresseur]

Khall, my normal position with my hands is here. (and, proof that I do ride with my hands evenly )

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Basically, the pics that I showed were just after me bumping him up, and me starting to reach forward and back down -you can see the bit of slack in the rein. I always return my hands to neutral. But, I exacerbated his natural tendency to curl, so if I always keep my hands neutral - he'll stay curled. So, it's up, then out, then neutral, repeat 300x.

Demi, you are right, you need to make sure the hind is marching up to fill the space that you are leaving when you release forward. You need the forward response from behind to get her to take the contact out. The first pic is up, but she doesn't give the impression of taking the neck out. This is the moment where you need to ask for a bit more energy and give a bit forward to see if she will reach for the bit as you push it away from you. The second pic, I agree, too low - she's pulling a Miro lol. But, the balance still looks pretty good, so yea, I'd bump up a bit in this moment, and then ask again, energy and push the bit away from you. The third, it's hard to tell from this angle if she's longer in the neck, but the elevation looks good and it looks like the poll is the highest point. You'll get it.

[Tsavo]

While I agree Dresseur is probably riding around most of the time with a straight line from bit to elbow, I will say there are so many expert riders who ride with a broken line upward that I don't think we could ever conclude that someone who rides as well as Dresseur is in any way hindering her horse or herself if she has a broken line upward.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

[khall]

Except tsavo dresseur has admitted on this thread that her riding is blocking the horses she rides. Many of the photos dresseur has posted show a broken line, I am just going back to the ODGs which say to keep the line from the elbow to mouth straight. Now yes riding with a higher hand acts more on the corner of the mouth than riding with a too low of hand which acts on the bar of the mouth, IMO better. But still riding with too high of hand can and does close the horse up. I fall into this trap as well. What I have been trying to concentrate on with Rip is the activity and engagement of the hindquarters so that the head and neck raise up from the engagement, not as much about the front end. I am better at this in the canter than in the trot for some reason.

[Chisamba]

My epiphany of the day. Life has a way of integrating information. I am studying online and one of my topics was communication. Only 25% of what is said is absorbed, 75% is ignored, misunderstood or forgotten. Tips for improvement were as the recipient to paraphrase what you said, and add on what is important that has been misunderstood.

So this morning when assisting one of my clients I said good morning, time to get up and go to the toilet. My client got up and I asked, what shall we do now? The client said, get dressed. So I said do you need to go to the toilet first?

Establishing what had been understood or assumed really did help the morning to smoothly.

So when I ride today, each time I applied and aid, I paused to see what had been absorbed. For example on Kimba I asked her to halt. She halted. I softened my arms and she immediately stepped off. Now when I soften my intent is to tell the horse she did the right thing and to maintain. If I wanted her to step of i would have applied leg. So I halted again and softened my arm. She stepped off so I immediately halted again. It took several reminders before she waited for my aids. Each time I felt she anticipated I did not continue but reestablished communication until she both listened and understood. It took patience but I had the best, most fabulous ride.

So in human interaction and riding, the key to communication is to understand that only 25 percent of what you said was absorbed and to communicate better, make sure, by good natured paraphrase, repeat, and simplify before proceeding.

[Tsavo]

She may feel she is blocking her horse at times but I am not convinced those times map to when she has a broken line upward.

[Dresseur]

It doesn’t. I was not unaware of the curling, so I momentarily lift my hands to bring him back up. Sometimes I share pics of that moment, but we’re talking a movement that happens in an instant. What I was unaware of was that I wasn’t following through and asking him to extend the neck, which was leaving him with a short neck and closed throat latch. I was softening as I’d bring my hands back to neutral, but not giving slightly forward, which in turn, asks him to carry the bit forward and the neck out. That’s what I was blocking.

Right now, my hands are a bit all over the place because I find that I have to exaggerate the movements a bit. I wanted to share the progress in its early infancy because I thought people could understand and maybe even learn from my mistakes with the visuals. But, that also meant not sharing pics of me in great position. The pic from my previous post is already more normal in my hand position and he’s already more out to the bit- so it’s not taking him long to figure out what I’m asking for.

[Tsavo]

Look the fact that your hands are not always in position tells me you are probably correctly responding to what your horse is telling you given how crazy my GP instructor's hands were when riding a crooked rehab. This horse was crazy crooked and stiff as hell and there was NFW she could keep her hands anywhere near normal for the first several rides. It was so comical because she had a prospective client come in that day and that is what they saw! In the meantime she was on her way to winning GP regional champion on her GP horse. LOL.

I think the hands can be the barometer of straightness (among other things). When my horse is pretty straight, my hands automatically come closer to each other and sometimes touch. When he is crooked they automatically come away and can be up and down in response. The hands don't fix that but they reveal it in my opinion.

[demi]

...

Right now, my hands are a bit all over the place because I find that I have to exaggerate the movements a bit. I wanted to share the progress in its early infancy because I thought people could understand and maybe even learn from my mistakes with the visuals. But, that also meant not sharing pics of me in great position...

I have learned much from you, Dresseur, and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one. Thank you!!

[Hot4Spots]

And....Monday night, he's sound at the walk in front, the slight filling and heat gone. This is so weird - dead lame on Sunday, sound 24 hours later.


Kande: Re ticks - not totally out of the realm of possibility, but he'd really have to work at it. He hasn't been out on the trail in over a year, any ticks would have to crawl across the ground into his stall, and I groom him daily and haven't seen any ticks at all.

[DJR]

I moved all my bozos home from the boarding facility on the weekend. Holy moley, what a bunch of idiotz they all can be!

I put Pan back in with the mare he loves and that was ok, although he was bent out of shape because the pony mares are two paddocks over and his stallion complex makes it so that he wants to lord over all of them. I also put him on Gastro-FX, continued his Solace pellets (Mg) and added Quiessence to try to help him settle. He came back two days ago and is already better so that's good. I haven't dared to ride him yet, though ... ugh!

Jet and my daughter's QH pony, Sawyer, shared a paddock at the boarding facility. But, Jet and my big Percheron gelding, Dante, ALWAYS lived together prior to Dante being sold two years ago. So, I put Sawyer in with the pony mares and Jet in with Dante. BIG NO. Dante chased Jet progressively more and more, so moved Jet in with the ponies. Sort of good, but this morning I put the small Welsh pony mare back in with Dante and finally I've found the right mix. The maelstrom has finally settled!!

So, I hope to get back on their backs as the week goes on.

But ... meanwhile, last night Kara probably broke her RIGHT (dominant) wrist!! She did her barn chores as usual, then dropped her glove inside the alpaca area. She reached through the fence between the fence and the wall and twisted her wrist to reach the glove, and JUST THEN the alpacas had a disagreement and one of them bumped her twisted wrist. She's in a splint now and will see Ortho next week to see if the distal ulnar growth plate has been damaged. The ER doc told her that hers was the best story of the day to have been injured by an alpaca!

So, that's the craziness that is my life these days!

[heddylamar]

But ... meanwhile, last night Kara probably broke her RIGHT (dominant) wrist!!

Fingers crossed her recovery goes as well as mine has thus far! I've not gotten one of those waterproof covers before that encase your entire arm and have a rubber gasket, but I did this time. Showering was far far easier without having to deal with plastic bags and rubber bands.

[Sue B]

DJR, healing jingles for Kara--great fracture story though.

HFS< off the wall suggestion but...a long time ago a friend and I had our horses in an old refurbished barn that had a pack rat. Sometimes, at night, when ponies were sleeping, said rat would nip her horse! He would get a tremendous cellulitis for about 24hrs then all good. It took us a few go-arounds to figure this out, especially since neither my horse nor our other friend's horse was affected. Anyways, we trapped the rat and problem was solved! Who knows?

Dresseur, in my never ending quest to keep my Rudy's neck long and beautiful instead of short and yucky, I am adding something else to the mix, suggested by Cindy Canace. During our warm-up especially, I ride with hands touching the saddle pad in front of the saddle and almost touching each other, reins the "appropriate" length. No matter what he does, I endeavor to keep them quiet, soft elbows, blah, blah, blah, while I fix any above, below, behind, whatever neck thing is going on with only seat and leg. As I stated earlier, I am also trying to "always" feel like I have more horse out in front than behind. Ideally, I would attach strap to saddle so I can carry my hands a little higher and a touch more forward, so sometimes I grab a chunk of mane instead. At any rate, this reminds me to keep wandering hands quiet and to ride less hands more seat. I think it's working in that I am not micromanaging him all the time and making him more responsible for his body. We'll see how this evolves.

[kande50]

Look the fact that your hands are not always in position tells me you are probably correctly responding to what your horse is telling you given how crazy my GP instructor's hands were when riding a crooked rehab.

This. Making ourselves even is what eventually makes our horses more even, but trying to force a horse to adapt to a rigid position IMO, just makes him stiff, so on a young or crooked horse it makes sense to me to start where the horse is at and then carefully bring him to where we want him to be. This means that if we're going to be gentle with our horses we can't ride them as if they were capable of conforming to our aids, because all we get from that is a horse who yields in some ways but compensates in others because he can't do what we want.

I think the hands can be the barometer of straightness (among other things). When my horse is pretty straight, my hands automatically come closer to each other and sometimes touch. When he is crooked they automatically come away and can be up and down in response. The hands don't fix that but they reveal it in my opinion.

This, too.

[kande50]

It doesn’t. I was not unaware of the curling, so I momentarily lift my hands to bring him back up.

Not sure what exactly was going on, and I only noticed this once when I was riding yesterday, but when Sting put his head down it seemed like he was trying to figure out what I wanted rather than evading, so I let go and he came right back up again. I have it on video, and if I can figure out how to get this !$##$)^*^ video editing program to do what I want it to do I'll post it.

[Hot4Spots]

What a bummer Hot4spots. I feel for you. I have had horses that always seemed to have issues that kept them unrideable, or just walk work. It was so frustrating. The vet bills were bad enough but not being able to ride my horse was worse. I sure hope your luck changes.

It's like he "saved up" potential injuries: from 3 to 9 years old, he was barefoot and never had any issues, then this California drought and hard, hard ground gave him minor bruising that resolved immediately with front shoes. This initial suspensory injury occurred late in his 11th year, So vet wanted an eggbar shoe on that leg, so now he's shod all-round. I'm not saying barefoot kept him sound, just that he was problem free from 2.5 years to 11 years of age.

[kande50]

So this is my baseline for 2018. I can't seem to let go of my need to get him to bend more on the corners, even though I keep trying to convince myself that it's likely not a great idea to try to get him to bend just as much to the left as to the right.

So my goals for this year are to continue to work on bend and forward, because I think I'm going to need more of both if I want to progress any further.

The moment when he started to put his head down is at about 2:16, and my impression of my response was that I gave with my hands, but I can see on the vid that I also widened them, which is something we worked on a lot when we were trying to figure out the high wide hands that Philippe Karl teaches. High and wide was too much for Sting, so I just do wide.

https://youtu.be/aSYBPJoE2fg

[khall]

H4S, gosh what a roller coaster! Did your guy have a digital pulse? Usually if it is an abscess they will have a pounding pulse. I've had abscesses do weird things, from not reacting to hoof testers to never even being lame and yet boom, one opens up. Jingles your guy continues to be sound now and happy to get his walk abouts in US.

tsavo/dresseur I was making a recommendation based on my very similar issues with Rip that dresseur is facing when riding. I also totally agree with SueB here about having the hands down and still, riding more off the seat/legs than using the hands. I find that very helpful as well. I like to bridge the reins to help me use less hands. I keep going back to the ODGs of engaging the HQs will raise the neck. I do have some different challenges with Rip because he is low set in his neck but still will curl or go BTV easily. I rode for years with a longer rein to get him to reach out, now I really need to get him to reach up and out more. A bit of the UP with the reins but more with the engagement behind. Watching Cedar work Rip in hand really showed me how much that engagement works to get Rip much more elevated in his front. He looked totally different with the piaffe work. I actually think it is encouraging so many of us are on similar paths. Of course dresseur rides many more horses and some dang nice ones than most of us, but like Flight with her issues with Ding and activity, SueB similar to Rip and Miro riding the neck longer. I find it interesting that I can get better carriage at the canter than at the trot, need to get some video see if I (we) can see why. Cedar was having me ride with my leg more on than I am used to and I felt it really helped. That leg saying to Rip stay under and engaged please. I could really feel it under my seat. Something also to think about.

[Chisamba]

Regarding hands. I personally feel that a low held hand is unforgiving and inelastic. Yes for a novice rider to learn to be still it's important but an educated rider who can operate from stability needs to be able to respond to the horses mouth, not mimic side reins.

Regarding telescoping neck. I only consider a neck to be following if the poll reaches further from the wither, not simply the nose. If you release and the nose goes out but the neck does not stretch from either to poll, you have not telescopes.

I hope horse and child unsoundness resolves well!

As for me, Deneb. Sigh. I'm not ready to really talk about it but will probably come back to it.

As usual love to read and learn from your journeys.

[Tsavo]

Werth, the presently top ranked rider in the world, if not the galaxy... an object lesson in broken line upward.

http://eurodressage.com/index.php/2010/ ... bell-werth

[khall]

tsavo I am not a Werth fan at all. I know she wins gold medals but I saw her ride Warum Night at WEG 2010 and wanted to yank her off the horse. She rode crudely and aggressively (was not in front of spectators, was the run thru for Freestyle we happen to witness because we had stayed late for reining.) I did not like her years ago riding Gigilo, but after witnessing her riding at WEG I would not let her ride a donkey I owned I don't care how many gold medals she has.

[demi]

About the pic of Werth and the “broken line”: I noticed that the horse’s hind leg is NOT reaching forward. But I can find pics of riders with broken lines where the horse IS reaching well forward.

So, personally, I want to be very careful about being too dogmatic when it comes to dressage “rules”.

[Tsavo]

Young horse.

[Hot4Spots]

[quote="khall"]H4S, gosh what a roller coaster! Did your guy have a digital pulse? Usually if it is an abscess they will have a pounding pulse. I've had abscesses do weird things, from not reacting to hoof testers to never even being lame and yet boom, one opens up. Jingles your guy continues to be sound now and happy to get his walk abouts in US.

No, no digital pulse. 1st time nothing obvious, 2nd time, slight edema on inside of foreleg, not extending into pastern. Beginning to think the answer may be he dashes (arrrgh, the suspensory) out into his paddock and maybe whacks himself on the doorsill? Keeping him completely stall bound would be worse, and most of the time, he's pretty quiet in his stall and paddock, so vet said just leave it as it is.

[Tsavo]

Uta Graf.

http://www.eurodressage.com/2010/11/03/ ... gdom-horse

Checkmate.

[demi]

Good for you Kande!! I think you will appreciate the “background” vid. I really am getting a lot out of my own video efforts. It is too tedious to do often but definitely worth doing when i have the patience.

[demi]

I had a good lesson this week. I rode her this time and am so glad I did. I needed that push that i get from a good trainer. I worked harder than I do at home, and now I am going to try to keep it up. I did have to take two Aleve before the lesson and I think I will take one every time before I ride now, for a while anyway.

My home work is lots of shoulderfore at trot, leg yield, and more canter. I can do that.

[khall]

Really tsavo? Here is actual video of Uta https://www.facebook.com/pferdia/videos ... EyNzczOTA/
SLIGHTLY too high hand mostly with just the inside hand.

Even better is Anja Beran https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGp21d-LfK8

http://www.classicaldressage.co.uk/Alig ... nment.html

Every EVERY classical dressage ODG says straight line from elbow to the bit. From Podhasky and not ODG to Jane Savoie.

[khall]

Look at where Spanish Riding School carries their hands https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_QlKdNrzAU

Phillipe Karl http://philippe-karl.com

As for keeping the hand low, again look at where the Spanish Riding School carries their hands. Right above the withers, why, because it requires you to ride with way more seat/leg/weight aid when you ride with your hand lower (again NOT with broken line hand lower) but this keeps the elbows released and soft. Much like riding with one hand does or bridging the reins. In my case, I know I will get too handsy if I ride with too high of hand. If I keep the hand lower, with the softer elbows then I ride more from the seat. I also very much like to ride one handed, great test for me to see how effective I am with my seat aids as opposed to relying on the rein aids so much. I see the high hand creeping in with some of the competitive riders we see these days.